View Poll Results: Patriot, Traitor, or something else?

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  • Traitor (Elaborate)

    19 31.67%
  • Patriot (Elaborate)

    25 41.67%
  • Other (Elaborate)

    12 20.00%
  • I don't know

    4 6.67%
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Thread: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

  1. #111
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by bubbabgone View Post
    Doing what Snowden did was one thing and if he hadn't run off to China, Russia, perhaps Cuba, and God knows where else, my opinion of him ( not what he did ) would be a lot different.
    I don't recall a rule saying that committing civil disobedience or being a whistleblower requires making yourself a martyr.

  2. #112
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    He's not on trail because of the video of us killing a reporter
    Do you think the soldiers who killed the reporter should be on trial? Be honest.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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  3. #113
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    He released classified information to the world, based on nothing more than his belief, after 3 short months, that the government was doing something wrong. He did not follow legal procedures to register his complaints. He is a criminal, and a traitor, and should be tried in a US federal court. If convicted, he should receive the appropriate prison time.
    There are no "legal" ways of whistleblowing top secret projects. Anyone you talk to doesn't have the clearance. This was the only way.

    And treason only counts if you betray your country. He betrayed his government to benefit the people.

    Are you saying you'd never whistleblow, no matter how bad the issue is?
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  4. #114
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Depends on your moral values, doesn't it? Me, in this case, there are better ways to handle classified information you feel there are problems with.
    Like?
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  5. #115
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    To all -

    Notice that my bio says I "lean progressive". I am quite progressive (as can be seen here)...but that doesn't mean that liberal/progressive/Democratic views are always right - that's why I'm a contrarian. Sometimes - if only rarely - the conservatives are right. When it comes to Snowden and Bradley Manning, the conservatives are right.
    The political lean you are trying to describe is statist.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  6. #116
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    I don't know if "patriot" is quite the right word, but I think he at least believes he did the right thing. On the other hand, anyone who thinks the NSA hasn't been spying on every single U.S. citizen since it was created is probably kidding themselves. The sad fact of the matter is that, whatever happens, this will die down in a few months and people will go back to watching movies and playing video games. Snowden will either find asylum somewhere, or not. His actions will, ultimately, not make much of a difference.

  7. #117
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by RabidAlpaca View Post
    There are no "legal" ways of whistleblowing top secret projects. Anyone you talk to doesn't have the clearance. This was the only way.

    And treason only counts if you betray your country. He betrayed his government to benefit the people.

    Are you saying you'd never whistleblow, no matter how bad the issue is?
    Snowden did betray his country. At this point, nobody knows whether his claims are accurate or not, or what those claims could mean. The guy was in the job for 3 months, and NSA higher-ups have stated that his claims are not accurate, his interpretations of the data he saw are not accurate, and his public disclosure world-wide could cause grave danger to the security of the country. The only way to know for certain who is lying is for Snowden to stand trial... only he doesn't want to do that, nor does he want his information to be publicly questioned.

    I do not consider him a Whistleblower at this point. Based on the facts that are undisputed, he has released classified information without regard to consequence, and is by definition a traitor.

  8. #118
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    You go much further than I would. I'm happy to be able to go to a restaurant or movie without the danger of getting blown to bits. If that means the NSA listens to phone calls, I can live with that.

    Your illusion of security should not trump the rights of the Citizens of the Republic.
    An Enlightened Master is ideal only if your goal is to become a Benighted Slave. -- Robert Anton Wilson

  9. #119
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    he's a whistleblower who started an important conversation that we should have been having years ago. as for "traitor" or "patriot," those are buzzwords designed to elicit an emotional reaction. i pick other.

  10. #120
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    Re: Is Edward Snowden a traitor or a patriot?

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Snowden did betray his country. At this point, nobody knows whether his claims are accurate or not, or what those claims could mean. The guy was in the job for 3 months, and NSA higher-ups have stated that his claims are not accurate, his interpretations of the data he saw are not accurate, and his public disclosure world-wide could cause grave danger to the security of the country. The only way to know for certain who is lying is for Snowden to stand trial... only he doesn't want to do that, nor does he want his information to be publicly questioned.

    I do not consider him a Whistleblower at this point. Based on the facts that are undisputed, he has released classified information without regard to consequence, and is by definition a traitor.
    Of course they would claim that what he said isn't accurate, just like how they blatantly lied in front of congress. Snowden was a super-user and could gain access to any of the information in the system. Like he said, he had the ability to run a tap on Obama if he so chose.

    A trial, like Manning's, would just be a show trial at this point, which is also why they're charging him with espionage - because they don't have any legitimate basis for charges.

    Releasing of classified documents is not "by definition [treasonous]". What a stupid statement.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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