View Poll Results: What say you?

Voters
97. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes. All humans should be protected under the law.

    27 27.84%
  • No. Marriage is between one man and one woman, period.

    20 20.62%
  • No. Only homosexuals and heterosexuals should be allowed to marry.

    6 6.19%
  • I donít care what they do as long as they stay out of my business.

    34 35.05%
  • My catís name is Mittens.

    10 10.31%
Page 50 of 73 FirstFirst ... 40484950515260 ... LastLast
Results 491 to 500 of 725

Thread: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

  1. #491
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    07-16-14 @ 01:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    47,571

    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    My error.... consent and legal age being the only restrictions you think should be in place.

    Suffice to say I disagree (and did not mean to misrepresent your argument at all).

    My argument is that the state created the legal framework of marriage for a specific relationship model and for specific reasons and is not compelled by law to provide the same framework for any relationship by any group of people any more than you can demand the state consider you a nonprofit corporation just because you think the benefits of that are groovy.
    Groovy? Lol, okay. Anyways, to the point, what ARE those "specific reasons." I don't remember you mentioning any specific reasons, just denials that it is not treating different people in an unequal manner, yet never really being specific as to how this is not clearly discriminating against certain people.

    IMO, it should not be up to the state to define the framework for other people's lives and happiness.

  2. #492
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    07-16-14 @ 01:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    47,571

    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Still looking for that explanation and all I see is a bunch of posts explaining how the state is in control over who people marry. Let me guess, it is because of reproduction? Give me a break. That is SO lame.

  3. #493
    Sage
    Papa bull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Midwest
    Last Seen
    06-25-15 @ 01:35 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    6,927

    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Groovy? Lol, okay. Anyways, to the point, what ARE those "specific reasons." I don't remember you mentioning any specific reasons, just denials that it is not treating different people in an unequal manner, yet never really being specific as to how this is not clearly discriminating against certain people.

    IMO, it should not be up to the state to define the framework for other people's lives and happiness.
    Read through my arguments again if you really care. I'm not actually busting your balls on this at all. I think you're entitled to believe whatever you want and am glad you are honest enough to state your full position. It shows an intellectual honesty that more people should possess.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  4. #494
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    07-16-14 @ 01:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    47,571

    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Read through my arguments again if you really care. I'm not actually busting your balls on this at all. I think you're entitled to believe whatever you want and am glad you are honest enough to state your full position. It shows an intellectual honesty that more people should possess.
    Well thanks, but I'm looking for a legitimate reason why the government should not issue marriage licenses to any grouping of consenting adults if they wish. I think it is clearly discriminatory.

    Besides, if you think about, a person who is living in a polygamous situation but not in a legal sense, who does end up having a child or children, can easily beat the system and collect benefits off the state for their child/children and NOT have to name a father. However, if they are married in a legal sense, that is another story entirely. At least there is a person held responsible in such situations.

  5. #495
    Sage
    Papa bull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Midwest
    Last Seen
    06-25-15 @ 01:35 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    6,927

    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Well thanks, but I'm looking for a legitimate reason why the government should not issue marriage licenses to any grouping of consenting adults if they wish. I think it is clearly discriminatory.
    I've said it before and I'll try to say it again in a way that might be more clear to you. It is not your right to have the government license anything you do. The government doesn't have to issue you a vendor's license, a fishing license, a driver's license, a doctor's license or any other license. Licenses are issued at the discretion of the state in ALL those categories because licenses aren't some automatic individual right and state sanctioned marriage is a license.

    Argue equal rights and that it's wrong that two homosexuals can't get a marriage license when two heterosexuals can. Or that three women and a man can't when two heterosexuals can.... you can argue equal protection under the law, but you can't logically argue that states must issue licenses to anyone who wants licenses. The state absolutely gets to lay it's own restrictions around them.

    The whole issue of entitlements and benefits due to strategies of being married or not being married are a whole different can of worms.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  6. #496
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Last Seen
    07-16-14 @ 01:18 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    47,571

    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    I've said it before and I'll try to say it again in a way that might be more clear to you. It is not your right to have the government license anything you do. The government doesn't have to issue you a vendor's license, a fishing license, a driver's license, a doctor's license or any other license. Licenses are issued at the discretion of the state in ALL those categories because licenses aren't some automatic individual right and state sanctioned marriage is a license.

    Argue equal rights and that it's wrong that two homosexuals can't get a marriage license when two heterosexuals can. Or that three women and a man can't when two heterosexuals can.... you can argue equal protection under the law, but you can't logically argue that states must issue licenses to anyone who wants licenses. The state absolutely gets to lay it's own restrictions around them.

    The whole issue of entitlements and benefits due to strategies of being married or not being married are a whole different can of worms.
    And how many times do I have to tell you that IS what I am arguing. That the states not issuing marriage licenses to certain groups of people is discrimination.

    The state does not get to deny a license when it's clearly discriminatory against a specific group or groups of people. They are treating certain groups of people as unequal to others based on? I'm still waiting for that answer AFTER reading your posts.

  7. #497
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    At least yours is the right argument; going for the equal protection under the law angle. I don't find it actually fits but at least it is an arguable position.
    It fits because your belief on what you believe marriage should be or comes from has nothing to do with how the laws of marriage now operate, if it ever did. Marriage now operates gender neutral. In the past, gender was a consideration in marriage because the genders were treated differently legally. Now, we aren't. Now marriage is gender neutral.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  8. #498
    Sage
    Papa bull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Midwest
    Last Seen
    06-25-15 @ 01:35 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    6,927

    What about the polygamists!?!

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    It fits because your belief on what you believe marriage should be or comes from has nothing to do with how the laws of marriage now operate, if it ever did. Marriage now operates gender neutral. In the past, gender was a consideration in marriage because the genders were treated differently legally. Now, we aren't. Now marriage is gender neutral.
    Maybe in your state. Not in my state and most of the rest of the USA and the world. But yes, some places have gone off the deep end and redefined marriage to be some plastic civil agreement between two adults.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  9. #499
    Sage
    roguenuke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Last Seen
    05-17-17 @ 05:55 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    28,935

    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Maybe in your state. Not in my state and most of the rest of the USA and the world. But yes, some places have gone off the deep end and redefined marriage to be some plastic civil agreement between two adults.
    In all states. It doesn't matter where a person lives, the laws of marriage are gender neutral in how they operate. You think differently, then show me a specific marriage law (related to some benefit, responsibility (particularly this one), privilege, or operation of marriage) that treats the genders differently. And that difference must be something that would affect same sex couples significantly when it comes to marriage. (For instance, I know of a supposed law that requires a wife to approve of a husband getting a vasectomy but does not have the same requirement for a husband to approve of a wife getting a tubal ligation. This law I consider wrong and if actually existing and ever enforced, it should be challenged as a constitutional rights violation. However, this really wouldn't apply or have any legitimate effect on same sex couples.)
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #500
    Sage
    Papa bull's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Midwest
    Last Seen
    06-25-15 @ 01:35 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    6,927

    What about the polygamists!?!

    One man plus one woman is gender specific and that's the law in most states.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

Page 50 of 73 FirstFirst ... 40484950515260 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •