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  • Yes. All humans should be protected under the law.

    27 27.84%
  • No. Marriage is between one man and one woman, period.

    20 20.62%
  • No. Only homosexuals and heterosexuals should be allowed to marry.

    6 6.19%
  • I don’t care what they do as long as they stay out of my business.

    34 35.05%
  • My cat’s name is Mittens.

    10 10.31%
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Thread: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

  1. #471
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    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I don't care whether or not the state provides benefits to any married couple or multiple married people. My issue is with those people who want to prevent people from marrying who they want on the basis of their religious beliefs or myths or paranoia.



    I believe any adults of consenting age should be able to be married if they so wish. So no, it isn't "anything" goes.
    Actually it IS "anything goes" even if you exclude the impossible (which is a consensual relationship between people who can't legally consent, i.e. minors). I've argued before that there are a lot of people like you that don't want any limitations at all to the types of relationships that the state must be forced to draw up contracts for, license and sanction. And the homosexual marriage advocates keep trying to argue that people like you don't exist.

    Well, here's their living proof; someone who admits it.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Actually it IS "anything goes" even if you exclude the impossible (which is a consensual relationship between people who can't legally consent, i.e. minors). I've argued before that there are a lot of people like you that don't want any limitations at all to the types of relationships that the state must be forced to draw up contracts for, license and sanction. And the homosexual marriage advocates keep trying to argue that people like you don't exist.

    Well, here's their living proof; someone who admits it.
    It isn't, it DOES leave out anyone who cannot legally consent, also that would include animals or any inanimate objects, which is what some of the anti-freedom to pursue happiness extremists claim will happen. Ridiculous. I want for consenting adults to be able to marry who they want for whatever reasons they want. That SHOULD be a right, to pursue your OWN ideas of happiness, not someone else's.

  3. #473
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    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    It isn't, it DOES leave out anyone who cannot legally consent, also that would include animals or any inanimate objects, which is what some of the anti-freedom to pursue happiness extremists claim will happen. Ridiculous. I want for consenting adults to be able to marry who they want for whatever reasons they want. That SHOULD be a right, to pursue your OWN ideas of happiness, not someone else's.
    Where you drive off the road into the ditch is in assuming that it is your right to have the state sanction your relationship. You have a right to be with whomever you wish, love whomever you wish, have sex with whomever you wish (all with consent being a given). You don't have a right, however, to make the state jump through whatever hoops you wish them to jump through in order to sanction as "marriage" whatever sort of relationship you dreamed up and entered.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

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    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by Papa bull View Post
    Where you drive off the road into the ditch is in assuming that it is your right to have the state sanction your relationship. You have a right to be with whomever you wish, love whomever you wish, have sex with whomever you wish (all with consent being a given). You don't have a right, however, to make the state jump through whatever hoops you wish them to jump through in order to sanction as "marriage" whatever sort of relationship you dreamed up and entered.
    Relationships are not "dreamed up." They actually exist. It is NOT the state sanctioning anything. It is the state minding it's own business and NOT telling certain groups of people that they are not allowed to marry, all because of some extremist utopian dream world that never really existed anyway except for in their own minds.

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    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Relationships are not "dreamed up." They actually exist. It is NOT the state sanctioning anything. It is the state minding it's own business and NOT telling certain groups of people that they are not allowed to marry, all because of some extremist utopian dream world that never really existed anyway except for in their own minds.
    You don't get it, do you, Chris? A right is the sovereignty to act without the permission of others. Marriage requires permission and sanction of the state. You may chose to live, love, screw whomever you wish with consensual framework all as a right, but you cannot claim as a right something the state must afford to you. It seems these days we get all too happy bastardizing the use, meaning and concept of "rights" and this is a clear example of that. The state must define marriage. It must adjudicate marriage and divorce. It must define tax codes. It must define all the laws of this legal and binding contract. There is no natural "right" to marriage. Sanctioned marriage is a state institution and you don't have any natural "right" to a state institution. You may argue that you have a natural right to be treated like anyone else and go with that angle to argue that whatever relationship you may be in should be deemed as marriage, but to argue that you have a natural right to a state sanction makes no sense unless we dispense with the real meaning of rights.
    You can't reason anyone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into in the first place.

  6. #476
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    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    I understand you fine, the point is none of it FACTUALLY means anything and im guessing by you not listing things that factually impact you agree or realize you cant.

    and your statement further proves my point, you say you think my definition is different from yours, well you just hit the nail on the head. There is NO definition, its made up, its subjective and it is personal to each person. SO like you already admitted others marriages dont effect yours, so the integrity is factually in ZERO danger.

    Yes divorce rate is high, so what, what does that factually do to the integrity of marriage? nothing
    Yes children are born out of wedlock what does that factually do to the integrity of marriage? nothing

    what if divorce was super low and people stayed together in BAD or ABUSIVE or FAILED marriages but kept it together legally?
    what if most kids werent born out of wedlock but find themselves in the marriages described above?

    again both meaningless to the integrity of marriage and both subjective.

    The integrity is in ZERO jeopardy.

    AGain though if you have things you think factually put it in danger please list them.

    If you do not think that high divorce rates, high rates of bastardy, and high rates of marital and family abuse do not indicate a serious problem with the integrity of marriage as an institution, then it is difficult to imagine what evidence you would ever accept as indicative of this threat. Certainly, divorce itself is, by definition, a failure in the integrity of marriage, whether we are talking about an individual marriage ending in this way, or about marriage as an institution in a society where roughly half of marriages end this way.
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    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    1.)If you do not think that high divorce rates, high rates of bastardy, and high rates of marital and family abuse do not indicate a serious problem with the integrity of marriage as an institution, then it is difficult to imagine what evidence you would ever accept as indicative of this threat.
    2.) Certainly, divorce itself is, by definition, a failure in the integrity of marriage,
    3.) whether we are talking about an individual marriage ending in this way, or about marriage as an institution in a society where roughly half of marriages end this way.
    1.) what i think is irrelevant im asking you to provide FACTS that it integrity is in danger, you opinion on the subject just like mine is meaningless. SO again can you provide any facts?
    2.) no its not a impact to the integrity, especially not by definition. Why would divorce FACTUALLY be a threat to the integrity?
    3.) individually or as an institution this has no impact to the integrity. An equal subjective opinion based argument could be made that it improves the integrity too.

    Let me know when you can factually prove the integrity of marriage is at risk, especial by equal rights.
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    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    1.) what i think is irrelevant im asking you to provide FACTS that it integrity is in danger, you opinion on the subject just like mine is meaningless. SO again can you provide any facts?
    I have provided the facts. You deny them and twist them, and play silly games with definitions, in order to deny what is obvious.

    What evidence would it take to convince you to admit that the integrity of marriage is, and has long been, significantly undermined? I do not believe there is any evidence that would lead you to admit this.

    I'm reminded of a C.S. Lewis quote, in which he said that a man can no more diminish the glory of God by denying His existence, than a lunatic can put out the Sun by scribbling the word “darkness” on the walls of his cell.

    You seem to be the sort of person who could stare at the Sun until you were blind, and continue to deny that it exists.
    The five great lies of the Left Wrong:
    We can be Godless and free. • “Social justice” through forced redistribution of wealth. • Silencing religious opinions counts as “diversity”. • Freedom without moral and personal responsibility. • Civilization can survive the intentional undermining of the family.

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    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    1.)I have provided the facts. You deny them and twist them, and play silly games with definitions, in order to deny what is obvious.

    2.) What evidence would it take to convince you to admit that the integrity of marriage is, and has long been, significantly undermined?

    3.) I do not believe there is any evidence that would lead you to admit this.

    4.) I'm reminded of a C.S. Lewis quote, in which he said that a man can no more diminish the glory of God by denying His existence, than a lunatic can put out the Sun by scribbling the word “darkness” on the walls of his cell.

    5.) You seem to be the sort of person who could stare at the Sun until you were blind, and continue to deny that it exists.
    1.) no you have not provided any facts what so ever as to the threat or marriage integrity.
    you provided a fact that divorce rate is 50+% that is a fact, but its not a fact that this affect marriage integrity.

    2.) i alreadt told you i need FACTS not your opinion.

    sorry HUGE difference and being .

    im not denying anything you can try to sell that lie if you like but it will fail every time and nobody honest will buy it.

    3.) you may be right because unless there are facts out their (which you have provided ZERO) i would never admit it because i dont make stuff up or believe opinions to be fact.

    4.) GOd as nothign to do with legal marriage

    5.) ahhhhh failed insults and deflections, typical maneuver of somebody that has thier opinion defeated and has no logical or factual path to take.
    the sun does factually exist unlike this threat to the integrity of marriage you speak of. You are free to believe in fantasy all you want but the people who are honest and objective need facts. Let me know when you have any that show the integrity of legal marriage is in jeopardy.
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    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    That integrity never left with those who matter. Polluting marriage with homosexuality is not the answer.
    If that 'integrity' never left even with a 50% divorce rate then why would it leave now? Marriage contracts ought to be treated like other private contracts. It should be a matter of consent, not a matter of govt approval.
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