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Thread: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

  1. #421
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    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    Homosexuals cannot create their own families. Not together. Not naturally.

    Actually, it's a waste of your time to peddle the notion of gay marriage to a Christian Conservative.
    Sure we can. It is called surrogate.

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    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    You are obviously quite ignorant on this topic and the word itself. Quit allowing yourself to be influenced by highly visible wackos and really research the poly community. Our families are just as likely to consist of a female with multiple males as well as groups of multiple of both genders. Violence in not a hallmark of our families. It is a notable trait of the fringe religious kooks. Otherwise it's no more common than among monos. Using groups like the FLDS's to judge all of the poly community by is like using skinheads to judge all Caucasians by.
    But you have to admit that the FLDS has brought a problem with polygamous marriages to light. How would you deal with groups of polys that insist on "marrying" each others children at as young an age as possible? It seems to me that polygamy would attract pedophiles and if it was legal we would have little we could do about the child abuse. Marriage is legal in some states at as young as 14 with parental consent.

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    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    I didn't bring up the FLDS's - you did. Everything I said remains fairly well-based in our historical experience. The idea that there is an equal likelihood of polygamous society being polyandrous a polygynous is (as near as I can tell) neither based in human nature, nor a study of human history. Polygamous societies do produce relatively large populations of young men for whom there are no women, decreasing social stability, increasing rates of violence, and decreasing innovation and growth as effort is turned towards competition with other males. Within the families themselves, Captain Courtesy is correct - competition for favor and resources produces a less stable environment for the rearing of children.

    As for those religious kooks - you may want to be nicer to them. If this is really a policy goal of yours, they are actually your best bet.
    Being a group discussion, the FLDS have already been brought up. I said groups like them noting that they are not the only groups that fit the criteria you are describing.

    I'm not sure what you are talking about as far as a polygamous society at least in the context of the laws of the US (which is where most of this seems to be centered. Allowing legal recognition of polygamy would not turn our society into a polygamous one. We would still be a mostly monogamous society. As far as history goes, I'd like to see any studies on older societies where polygamy produced large populations of young men without access to women. Now I can understand that as a concern for more modern societies as our male mortality rate is way lower then when our tech and medical knowledge didn't allow the life saving and extending that occurs today. Also in today's society, as opposed to the past, we are less patriarchal and as a result, we have same sex pairings as well as larger numbers of individuals who never marry, or wait till their older. Throw in there the fact that multiple marriages (not polygamy) is rather a norm in today's society, availability on the long term scale is not going to be that much of an issue. Add on top of that, that modern US practice (on a non-legal basis) is shifting to highly mixed groupings (multiple males and females) any strain on the inaccessibility of one gender to another would be minimal at best.

    Competition for favor and resources occurs in monogamous families as well. If a couple have several children, competition would high. Adding additional adults actually provides the children with more resources.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I doubt that would ever become a problem here in the US. I doubt if enough people would be having polygamous relationships in our country. There are probably so few that actually practice polygamy in this country that it's not even worth the trouble it might be to legalize it.
    I really don't get this about you as far as these kinds of topics go. You take failed arguments from related issues and apply them to others. That argument was used before with interracial and same sex marriage as well. That aside are you actually saying that a right should be denied when there are only a few would make use of that right?


    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    Homosexuals cannot create their own families. Not together. Not naturally.
    Sterile people cannot create their own families. Not together. Not naturally. Not even with another non-sterile person.

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    But you have to admit that the FLDS has brought a problem with polygamous marriages to light. How would you deal with groups of polys that insist on "marrying" each others children at as young an age as possible? It seems to me that polygamy would attract pedophiles and if it was legal we would have little we could do about the child abuse. Marriage is legal in some states at as young as 14 with parental consent.
    Child abuse is child abuse is child abuse. When we can get evidence that FLDS members are sexually abusing underage children we go after them. If polygamy was so attractive to pedophiles why aren't they already flocking to FLDS communities? The concept of polygamy in no way leads to the concept of child abuse. Child abuse, sexual or otherwise, occurs regardless of the marital status of the abuser; single, monogamous, divorced, or polygamous.

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    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Being a group discussion, the FLDS have already been brought up. I said groups like them noting that they are not the only groups that fit the criteria you are describing.

    I'm not sure what you are talking about as far as a polygamous society at least in the context of the laws of the US (which is where most of this seems to be centered. Allowing legal recognition of polygamy would not turn our society into a polygamous one. We would still be a mostly monogamous society. As far as history goes, I'd like to see any studies on older societies where polygamy produced large populations of young men without access to women. Now I can understand that as a concern for more modern societies as our male mortality rate is way lower then when our tech and medical knowledge didn't allow the life saving and extending that occurs today. Also in today's society, as opposed to the past, we are less patriarchal and as a result, we have same sex pairings as well as larger numbers of individuals who never marry, or wait till their older. Throw in there the fact that multiple marriages (not polygamy) is rather a norm in today's society, availability on the long term scale is not going to be that much of an issue. Add on top of that, that modern US practice (on a non-legal basis) is shifting to highly mixed groupings (multiple males and females) any strain on the inaccessibility of one gender to another would be minimal at best.

    Competition for favor and resources occurs in monogamous families as well. If a couple have several children, competition would high. Adding additional adults actually provides the children with more resources.



    I really don't get this about you as far as these kinds of topics go. You take failed arguments from related issues and apply them to others. That argument was used before with interracial and same sex marriage as well. That aside are you actually saying that a right should be denied when there are only a few would make use of that right?




    Sterile people cannot create their own families. Not together. Not naturally. Not even with another non-sterile person.



    Child abuse is child abuse is child abuse. When we can get evidence that FLDS members are sexually abusing underage children we go after them. If polygamy was so attractive to pedophiles why aren't they already flocking to FLDS communities? The concept of polygamy in no way leads to the concept of child abuse. Child abuse, sexual or otherwise, occurs regardless of the marital status of the abuser; single, monogamous, divorced, or polygamous.
    I'll tell you what, if you want to quote me, then quote JUST me. I refuse to sift through all of your BS just to reply to one of your long and boring posts for one stupid little question.

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    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by captainawesome View Post
    Sure we can. It is called surrogate.
    Of course you can't. It's called simple math: Husband's sperm + husband's sperm = zero children. Wife's ovaries + wife's ovaries = zero children.

    Conclusion: Gay parenting through surrogacy or adoption = further confusion for children.
    Last edited by Dooble; 06-29-13 at 10:25 AM.

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    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by maquiscat View Post
    Sterile people cannot create their own families. Not together. Not naturally. Not even with another non-sterile person.
    This doesn't help CC's original point, but thanks for the straw man.

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    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    sure

    consenting adults engaged in activities that hurt no one should be legal
    Gay marriage is catastrophic from the Christian perspective, but do these people care? Of course not. Usually it's just the middle finger, but other times it gets worse:

    Gay Activists Threaten Violence - Research - Chalcedon

    Yeah, these shepherds of enlightenment are harmless....

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    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    Gay marriage is catastrophic from the Christian perspective, but do these people care? Of course not. Often times it's just the middle finger, but other times it's worse:

    Gay Activists Threaten Violence - Research - Chalcedon

    Yeah, these shepherds of enlightenment are harmless....
    I thought this thread was about polygamy?

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    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I thought this thread was about polygamy?
    It was until the straw men slithered in.

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    re: What about the polygamists!?! [W:693]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dooble View Post
    It was until the straw men slithered in.
    Well, gay marriage or polygamy in and of themselves don't hurt anyone.

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