View Poll Results: Is state nullification constitutional?

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  • Yes

    19 38.78%
  • No

    26 53.06%
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Thread: Is state nullification constitutional?

  1. #71
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    Re: Is state nullification constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob Blaylock View Post
    I don't see what inconsistency this would indicate.
    I'm guessing you would if you had actually read both of them.

    Irrational justifications for usurping state power via judicial activism should never be entertained if one actually supports state sovereignty.
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  2. #72
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    Re: Is state nullification constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Good afternoon, Tucker Case.

    It just seems suspicious to me that we have had such a rash of these type problems recently.

    Perhaps this administration is testing to see how far it can go with what appears to be overreach? We have seen that the laws they don't agree with tend to be ignored, or skirted around. Plus it tends to clog up the legal system. It will be interesting to watch!
    Every administration does it. That's why I point out the hypocrisy of how people cite the Kentucky and Virginia resolutions. Those explicitly state: "REsolved, That alien friends are under the jurisdiction and protection of the laws of the State wherein they are: that no power over them has been delegated to the United States, nor prohibited to the individual States, distinct from their power over citizens. And it being true as a general principle, and one of the amendments to the Constitution having also declared, that “the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people," the act of the Congress of the United States, passed on the — day of July, 1798, intituled “An Act concerning aliens,” which assumes powers over alien friends, not delegated by the Constitution, is not law, but is altogether void, and of no force."

    If one supports the Kentucky resolution, one must logically oppose federal immgiration laws. Protecting the border? Have at it. But deportation? Unconstitutional.
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  3. #73
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    Re: Is state nullification constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    That's a totally different thing that what I was discussing though. I understand that no state can be compelled to uphold the law. That's why I was talking about something totally different.
    There is the possiblility for nullifying within their own borders as well. Supremacy applies to that which the federal has enumerated powers over, and states may stop illegal actions within their own borders. It's not just "refusal to enforce", the federal has no jurisdiction unless enforcing a federal power(not to be confused with federal law).



    Military is not limited to "defense of borders". If it comes down to it, the argument could be made that the issue falls under federal jurisdiction via military purposes.
    Not really, it has to be a defensive action according to the U.S. Constitution. IOW, federal cannot just call up the military because they are upset that their agents got arrested for legal violations, it would have to be a legitimate threat to the citizens of the U.S., not a simple mission to uphold the federal law.



    I'm not familiar with the event, but what you describe does not negate the possibility that the reverse could occur, nor does it provide any evidence that the reverse is impossible.
    It happened in 2010 in Plaquemines Parish. Basically the feds were getting in the way of efforts to control the damage and the parish president Billy Nungesser threatened to have them all arrested on obstruction, the feds backed down and complied which pretty much ended the story there. I was trying to find a hard copy with details for you but it was more prominent locally and I'm having trouble finding the original story.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  4. #74
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    Re: Is state nullification constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Every administration does it. That's why I point out the hypocrisy of how people cite the Kentucky and Virginia resolutions. Those explicitly state: "REsolved, That alien friends are under the jurisdiction and protection of the laws of the State wherein they are: that no power over them has been delegated to the United States, nor prohibited to the individual States, distinct from their power over citizens. And it being true as a general principle, and one of the amendments to the Constitution having also declared, that “the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people," the act of the Congress of the United States, passed on the — day of July, 1798, intituled “An Act concerning aliens,” which assumes powers over alien friends, not delegated by the Constitution, is not law, but is altogether void, and of no force."

    If one supports the Kentucky resolution, one must logically oppose federal immgiration laws. Protecting the border? Have at it. But deportation? Unconstitutional.
    Great post. I did not know that. That's why I like this site...you learn something new every day!

  5. #75
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    Re: Is state nullification constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    There is the possiblility for nullifying within their own borders as well. Supremacy applies to that which the federal has enumerated powers over, and states may stop illegal actions within their own borders. It's not just "refusal to enforce", the federal has no jurisdiction unless enforcing a federal power(not to be confused with federal law).
    I'm actually thinking of a federal kidnapping investigation being interfered with by state cops. How would the feds react to that?



    Not really, it has to be a defensive action according to the U.S. Constitution. IOW, federal cannot just call up the military because they are upset that their agents got arrested for legal violations, it would have to be a legitimate threat to the citizens of the U.S., not a simple mission to uphold the federal law.
    And in the context of this thread, that argument can be made. Who cares what judges eventually rule on it, or what some guys on the internet say about it? What matters is any cop who decides to arrest the Federal agent may end up arrested himself or worse, involved in a shootout with federal agents. Whatever the final ruling on is of no import to me, as there is a danger present in the existing set up. Find out for sure how **** would actually go down before expecting any LEO to bet his or her life on you (and these lawmakers) being right.

    It happened in 2010 in Plaquemines Parish. Basically the feds were getting in the way of efforts to control the damage and the parish president Billy Nungesser threatened to have them all arrested on obstruction, the feds backed down and complied which pretty much ended the story there. I was trying to find a hard copy with details for you but it was more prominent locally and I'm having trouble finding the original story.
    That doesn't seem comparable to the situation I described in any way that is meaningful.
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  6. #76
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    Re: Is state nullification constitutional?

    Yes and I don't give a damn what the SCOTUS says about it...

  7. #77
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    Re: Is state nullification constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    Great post. I did not know that. That's why I like this site...you learn something new every day!
    Thanks! I'm DP's resident "Anti-federalist", so I tend to argue some strange cases from a small government perspective.
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  8. #78
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    Re: Is state nullification constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Anagram View Post
    Nullification efforts are mounting in states across the country. Kansas recently made it a felony for federal agents to enforce federal gun laws on guns made in Kansas. A law here in Missouri recently passed with huge super-majorities, so it will come into effect regardless of whether Governor Nixon vetoes it. So my question is whether or not those laws are constitutional.

    I'd like to make a distinction between those laws and the marijuana laws that have come into effect and are mentioned in the source as examples of nullification. Those laws merely legalize marijuana in the state, but do not prevent federal agents from enforcing the federal laws against it. As I understand it, this type of law was ruled constitutional in Prigg v Pennsylvania where it was said that the states cannot be compelled to use state law enforcement resources to enforce federal law. Rather, what I am talking about are laws that prevent even federal agents from enforcing the federal laws.
    Yes, sovreignty lies with the states.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

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  9. #79
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    Re: Is state nullification constitutional?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I'm actually thinking of a federal kidnapping investigation being interfered with by state cops. How would the feds react to that?
    Hard to tell, I'm thinking that would actually be a situation where the state would invite the feds. In the case where there was a power struggle I think the state would still allow them to join the investigation.





    And in the context of this thread, that argument can be made. Who cares what judges eventually rule on it, or what some guys on the internet say about it? What matters is any cop who decides to arrest the Federal agent may end up arrested himself or worse, involved in a shootout with federal agents. Whatever the final ruling on is of no import to me, as there is a danger present in the existing set up. Find out for sure how **** would actually go down before expecting any LEO to bet his or her life on you (and these lawmakers) being right.
    That all could happen, but I would think if federal agents engaged local PDs they would have a hard time getting through that state alive, lots of places have locals that would be pretty unhappy with that.


    That doesn't seem comparable to the situation I described in any way that is meaningful.
    Sure it is, the feds got into a pissing contest with the locals and lost.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

  10. #80
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    Re: Is state nullification constitutional?

    I've just read the last series of posts with amazement, trying to think what fantasy land the people who posted them imagine they are living in.

    All these comments advocating "states rights" and positing "what if" scenarios of Feds fighting local police act like States attempting nullification are already in active rebellion just like South Carolina immediately prior to the start of the Civil War.

    Despite wishful thinking, nothing could be further from the truth. All they are doing by these attempts at nullification is trying to get a legal challenge before SCOTUS in hopes the Justices will find the applicable Federal law un-Constitutional. It is also in a hope to make the issues moot by getting Congress to repeal the unpopular law too. That's it.

    Geez people, step into reality here.

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