View Poll Results: Should the public accommodations portion of the law be repealed?

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    64 52.03%
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    56 45.53%
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Thread: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

  1. #951
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Ok, then why not? If discrimination is bad, then why allow it in any case? Why is there this distinction? How does the act of charging membership dues justify discrimination when the act of charging for the service itself does not?

    All private property is exclusive. The degree to which it is inclusive to others is entirely the choice of the owner of said property.
    It really s bad. But we do make exceptions for these types of clubs. Perhaps we shouldn't. Would you join me in lobbying against them?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It really s bad. But we do make exceptions for these types of clubs. Perhaps we shouldn't. Would you join me in lobbying against them?
    Of course not. They have the right to be bad discriminatory pigs. And I have a right to expose them so nobody shops there, as do you. I'm just pointing out the double standard, and the absurdity of the law. If businesses really wanted to discriminate, and all they had to do was require membership to do so, if people were really that horrible in this country that's how a lot of stores would be run...but that isn't the case.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Of course not. They have the right to be bad discriminatory pigs. And I have a right to expose them so nobody shops there, as do you. I'm just pointing out the double standard, and the absurdity of the law. If businesses really wanted to discriminate, and all they had to do was require membership to do so, if people were really that horrible in this country that's how a lot of stores would be run...but that isn't the case.
    Not really a double standard. They are too few, too exclusive, to be too harmful to minorities. Sure, they're assholes, but the burden of allowing more public institutions to behave that way would be too great, and in fact was too great in the past.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not really a double standard. They are too few, too exclusive, to be too harmful to minorities. Sure, they're assholes, but the burden of allowing more public institutions to behave that way would be too great, and in fact was too great in the past.
    Of course its a double standard. Some businesses are allowed to discriminate, others are not, despite them all having private property that should be treated equally as private property under the law. The fact that a business is open to the public does not mean their property is any less "private." In fact, they should be able to define what "public" they will serve in their store. They should have the right to refuse serve to anyone for any reason, however stupid and bigoted it is.

    Allowing discrimination doesn't mean it will happen. I highly doubt it will--the outrage would be immense, and the owners would likely go out of business and even lose their property to someone who better serves the community. Nobody has a right to step foot on someone else's property, unless some sort of easement or other contract was established granting that right.

    Owners of property labelled as "public accommodations" are still owners of private property. Their rights have simply been infringed by a law creating a separate class of property and treating that class of property unequally.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    What do you think that has to do with it?
    Everything. People are taxed.

    Of course there are owners, the People - at least, that's how I would interpret it for your property-minded views.
    The people? Are the people able to control their governments? No. So exactly how are they owners? They entirely lack the core element of ownership, so they can't possibly be owners.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Of course its a double standard. Some businesses are allowed to discriminate, others are not, despite them all having private property that should be treated equally as private property under the law. The fact that a business is open to the public does not mean their property is any less "private." In fact, they should be able to define what "public" they will serve in their store. They should have the right to refuse serve to anyone for any reason, however stupid and bigoted it is.

    Allowing discrimination doesn't mean it will happen. I highly doubt it will--the outrage would be immense, and the owners would likely go out of business and even lose their property to someone who better serves the community. Nobody has a right to step foot on someone else's property, unless some sort of easement or other contract was established granting that right.

    Owners of property labelled as "public accommodations" are still owners of private property. Their rights have simply been infringed by a law creating a separate class of property and treating that class of property unequally.

    Nonsense. Owning a private club is different than a Perkins or McDonalds. These are far more public. And could and have inflicted great consequence to minorities in the past. Look, there's no reason to reverse unless you want to discriminate. I won't forget history and what it was like before. If you thinks its unfair, tough. It was far more unfair before. Life can be tough, but civil peace depends on a certain amount if fairness. Without it, it gets nasty. We have history to look at.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Nonsense. Owning a private club is different than a Perkins or McDonalds. These are far more public. And could and have inflicted great consequence to minorities in the past. Look, there's no reason to reverse unless you want to discriminate. I won't forget history and what it was like before. If you thinks its unfair, tough. It was far more unfair before. Life can be tough, but civil peace depends on a certain amount if fairness. Without it, it gets nasty. We have history to look at.
    At night there are far more people in a club than in a McDonald's. How is it any less public? What does public even mean the way you are using it? And why shouldn't all businesses be public? You still haven't provided a single good reason for allowing some businesses to discriminate and others not to. The reason to reverse is that its bad law. I'm not asking you to forget history. I agree discrimination based on skin color is immoral. But the law does not legislate morality.

    What about customers? Should it be illegal for customers to enter a store, discover the owner is black, and then refuse to buy from him because of it? Why not?

    These are not rhetorical questions.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    At night there are far more people in a club than in a McDonald's. How is it any less public? What does public even mean the way you are using it? And why shouldn't all businesses be public? You still haven't provided a single good reason for allowing some businesses to discriminate and others not to. The reason to reverse is that its bad law. I'm not asking you to forget history. I agree discrimination based on skin color is immoral. But the law does not legislate morality.

    What about customers? Should it be illegal for customers to enter a store, discover the owner is black, and then refuse to buy from him because of it? Why not?

    These are not rhetorical questions.
    you are barking up the wrong tree, they are never going to be for private property rights.

    private property kills the epa, the eeoc, and other liberal ideas of control.

  9. #959
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    At night there are far more people in a club than in a McDonald's. How is it any less public? What does public even mean the way you are using it? And why shouldn't all businesses be public? You still haven't provided a single good reason for allowing some businesses to discriminate and others not to. The reason to reverse is that its bad law. I'm not asking you to forget history. I agree discrimination based on skin color is immoral. But the law does not legislate morality.

    What about customers? Should it be illegal for customers to enter a store, discover the owner is black, and then refuse to buy from him because of it? Why not?

    These are not rhetorical questions.
    There are a lot more McDonalds. And buying is not remotely the same. Not buying, you hurt yourself out of spite. Not selling you hurt someone else.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you are barking up the wrong tree, they are never going to be for private property rights.

    private property kills the epa, the eeoc, and other liberal ideas of control.
    Get a grip. It's about damage to others. Read some history.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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