View Poll Results: Should the public accommodations portion of the law be repealed?

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    64 52.03%
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    56 45.53%
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    3 2.44%
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Thread: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

  1. #911
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    The Constitution says property, and that is what matters regarding property rights in this country.
    And where, exactly, are those rights spelled out? I've already seen that the government can't take property without taking the owner to court, which seems to imply that people CAN own property, but that part does say anything else in relation to or about any other property rights. Sorry, no dice.

    Start quoting the other references to property and let's see where that leads us. I'd bet it not covered nearly as much as you think it is.
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  2. #912
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    And where, exactly, are those rights spelled out? I've already seen that the government can't take property without taking the owner to court, which seems to imply that people CAN own property, but that part does say anything else in relation to or about any other property rights. Sorry, no dice.

    Start quoting the other references to property and let's see where that leads us. I'd bet it not covered nearly as much as you think it is.
    The Constitution does not grant rights to the people, it limits government by spelling out what it is allowed to do . Anything left out by the Constitution is left as a right to the states or to the people, as dictated by the 10th amendment. Property rights are granted due to the fact they are not denied. They are also reinforced by the 5th and 14th amendments.
    Last edited by Lakryte; 06-26-13 at 01:08 AM.
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  3. #913
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    The Constitution does not grant rights, it limits government. Property rights are granted due to the fact they are not denied.
    So I can target practice in my back yard with a machine gun? (I actually have no problem with that.) I can crap on my front lawn at the property line (the downwind side, of course) instead of using a sewer? On the public streets I can drive the full 140 MPH top end of my Dodge? I can do my tree cutting and power landscape work at midnight? Just how far can I go with these non-denied rights you seem to think I have?
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
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  4. #914
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    So I can target practice in my back yard with a machine gun? (I actually have no problem with that.)
    As long as doing so wasn't putting anyone else in danger. If you are in a residential area, I would say a stray bullet could easily go through a fence and violate a neighbor's property (and put them at risk) so it wouldn't be a clear cut yes, but if you are out in the country then absolutely.

    I can crap on my front lawn at the property line (the downwind side, of course) instead of using a sewer?
    My dog craps on our lawn all the time. If you want to I suppose you could too. The only question there would be public obscenity (can you be naked anywhere?), which I haven't ever really thought about so I cant argue whether or not I think public obscenity should be ok or not. Regardless, public obscenity laws are not federal. They are left to the states, as they should be.

    On the public streets I can drive the full 140 MPH top end of my Dodge?
    No. States are granted the right to determine speed limits by virtue of having control over the roads. There is nothing unconstitutional about speed limits.

    I can do my tree cutting and power landscape work at midnight?
    I guess it would again depend on the context of where you are. If you are keeping everyone awake at night against their will, there is a case to be made that you should not be able to do that. Such noise disturbance laws are not mentioned in the constitution, and thus are again left to states and localities.

    Just how far can I go with these non-denied rights you seem to think I have?
    As far as the Constitution allows assuming every law is constitutional (which is not the case). So in practice, as far as you can go before the government says no.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    As far as the Constitution allows assuming every law is constitutional (which is not the case).
    Unless the USSC says otherwise it most certainly is the case.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    So in practice, as far as you can go before the government says no.
    Seems like they've done exactly that with respect to discrimination. People were doing it wholesale - to the detriment of society - and the government stepped in to put a stop to it.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  6. #916
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Unless the USSC says otherwise it most certainly is the case.
    Not necessarily. An unconstitutional law can go unchallenged. If the Supreme Court ruled that citizens have no right to free speech, and used some bizarre reasoning to do it, would you say that was constitutional?


    Seems like they've done exactly that with respect to discrimination. People were doing it wholesale - to the detriment of society - and the government stepped in to put a stop to it.
    Yup. Although people continued to be racist pigs. The law can't change that.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    So I can target practice in my back yard with a machine gun? (I actually have no problem with that.) I can crap on my front lawn at the property line (the downwind side, of course) instead of using a sewer? On the public streets I can drive the full 140 MPH top end of my Dodge? I can do my tree cutting and power landscape work at midnight? Just how far can I go with these non-denied rights you seem to think I have?
    In some cases what youre doing infringines on others rights, so no.

  8. #918
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    All this discussion with the assumption that property owners could deal only with people they want too before the Public Accommodations Law. But the truth was that many businesses in the South that wanted to deal with Blacks and other minorities couldn’t because it was effectively illegal with serious penalties, to deal with Blacks and Hispanics.

  9. #919
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Not necessarily. An unconstitutional law can go unchallenged. If the Supreme Court ruled that citizens have no right to free speech, and used some bizarre reasoning to do it, would you say that was constitutional?
    That would depend on the exact circumstances now, wouldn't it?

    Who's to say what's constitutional and what isn't? At this time, only the USSC can do that.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  10. #920
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by jonny5 View Post
    In some cases what youre doing infringines on others rights, so no.
    Where does it say you have a right to a noise-free environment? We know that doesn't exist because people who work nights are constantly battling the noise issue.

    Where does it say you have a right to absolute safety? Obviously that doesn't exist either or tens of thousands wouldn't die on our highways every year.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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