View Poll Results: Should the public accommodations portion of the law be repealed?

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  • Yes

    64 52.03%
  • No

    56 45.53%
  • I don't know

    3 2.44%
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Thread: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

  1. #271
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by pbrauer View Post
    I ran an identical poll almost three years ago, since DP has added a significant number of users I thought I would try it again.

    In May 2010 Rand Paul announced his candidacy for U.S. Senate from Kentucky on MSNBC's The Rachel Maddow Show. On the show he got into some trouble because he said he wouldn't support the "public accommodations" portion of the Civil Right Act of 1964.

    That led up to this confrontation with Megyn Kelly on Fox where he said he favors repeal of that part of the law.

    Should the public accommodations portion of the law be repealed?

    Yes
    No
    I don't Know



    Here is part of the transcript:

    KELLY: Rand Paul is a libertarian. You are a libertarian. He is getting excoriated for suggesting that the Civil Rights act -- what he said was, "Look it's got 10 parts, essentially; I favor nine. It's the last part that mandated no discrimination in places of public accommodation that I have a problem with, because you should let businesses decide for themselves whether they are going to be racist or not racist. Because once the government gets involved, it's a slippery slope." Do you agree with that?

    STOSSEL: Totally. I'm in total agreement with Rand Paul. You can call it public accommodation, and it is, but it's a private business. And if a private business wants to say, "We don't want any blond anchorwomen or mustached guys," it ought to be their right. Are we going to say to the black students' association they have to take white people, or the gay softball association they have to take straight people? We should have freedom of association in America.

    KELLY: OK. When you put it like that it sounds fine, right? So who cares if a blond anchorwoman and mustached anchorman can't go into the lunchroom. But as you know, the Civil Rights Act of 1964 came around because it was needed. Blacks weren't allowed to sit at the lunch counter with whites. They couldn't, as they traveled from state to state in this country, they couldn't go in and use a restroom. They couldn't get severed meals and so on, and therefore, unfortunately in this country a law was necessary to get them equal rights.

    STOSSEL: Absolutely. But those -- Jim Crow -- those were government rules. Government was saying we have white and black drinking fountains. That's very different from saying private people can't discriminate.

    KELLY: How do you know? How do you know that these private business owners, who owned restaurants and so on, would have said, "You know what? Yes. We will take blacks.

    STOSSEL: Some wouldn't.

    KELLY: We'll take gays. We'll take lesbians," if they hadn't been forced to do it.

    STOSSEL: Because eventually they would have lost business. The free market competition would have cleaned the clocks of the people who didn't serve most customers.

    KELLY: How do you know that, John?

    STOSSEL: I don't. You can't know for sure.

    KELLY: That then was a different time. Racism and discrimination was rampant. I'm not saying it's been eliminated. But it was rampant. It was before my time, before I was born, but obviously I've read history, and I know that there is something wrong when a person of color can't get from state to state without stopping at a public restroom or a public lunchroom to have a sandwich.

    STOSSEL: But the public restroom was run by the government, and maybe at the time that was necessary.

    KELLY: But that's not what Rand Paul said. Rand Paul agreed that if it's run by the government, yes intervention is fine. He took issue with the public accommodations, with private businesses being forced to pony up under the discrimination laws.

    STOSSEL: And I would go further than he was willing to go, as he just issued the statement, and say it's time now to repeal that part of the law

    KELLY: What?

    STOSSEL: because private businesses ought to get to discriminate. And I won't won't ever go to a place that's racist and I will tell everybody else not to and I'll speak against them. But it should be their right to be racist.



    Not only should it not be repealed, it won't be repealed.

    The Libertarians will never have enough votes to get this through Congress.

    Not going to happen.

    Wait and see.




    "Tolerance is giving to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself." ~ Robert Green Ingersoll
    Last edited by shrubnose; 06-22-13 at 02:01 PM.

  2. #272
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Oh, please. Try to be at least a little original.
    Does the truth hurt?

  3. #273
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    The fact that a large number of people want to do something has no bearing on whether that act is ethical. The libertarian position is that it is wrong to initiate aggression. It doesn't matter whether a lot of people wish to do so or a single individual wishes to do so. In either case the initiation of aggression is wrong. A group of people has not special authority that does not belong to any individual.



    They do in the USA.

    With enough votes you can pass any law.

    Whether the Libertarians like it or not.

    That will not change any time soon.

    Its how the USA works.

  4. #274
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    Does the truth hurt?
    Nope. If you told it we have a discussion. But as you choose to leave discourse and instead battle stereotypes, there's reall no place else to go. You've already conceded.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  5. #275
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Nope. If you told it we have a discussion. But as you choose to leave discourse and instead battle stereotypes, there's reall no place else to go. You've already conceded.
    No. I'm tired of people supporting special rights. That's what it boils down to.

    I actually believe that the people supporting all these "special right" are the racists. By definition, a racist is someone who believes one race is inferior to another. Therefore, I conclude that everyone who believe that minorities need such a helping hand, believes they are inferior.

    This isn't the age of the past, where blacks have little to no opportunity. There are only a very limited few who would deny minorities an equal chance. I say it's time to stop racism, primarily by ignoring the few turds we still have in society. make them meaningless. Legislating racial law, is supporting racism, by definition.

  6. #276
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    From Shrubnoses post: "STOSSEL: Totally. I'm in total agreement with Rand Paul. You can call it public accommodation, and it is, but it's a private business. And if a private business wants to say, "We don't want any blond anchorwomen or mustached guys," it ought to be their right. Are we going to say to the black students' association they have to take white people, or the gay softball association they have to take straight people? We should have freedom of association in America."

    Again: Here is the example: I was in Mississippi in ’68 where the signs were still posted. An example was at the Greyhound station with men’s and women’s rest rooms inside black out house out the back. So, was Greyhound doing what it wanted to do for its Black customers because of corporate standards? No. Also, the Black Airmen were regularly attacked off base with no Mississippi law enforcement follow up. Even the Law Enforcement business had freedom to do business with only those they wanted to.
    It was local government and ‘culture’ that over ruled what the private business wanted to do.

    Is that what we want to get back too?
    Last edited by OhIsee.Then; 06-22-13 at 02:47 PM.

  7. #277
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    As Stossel mentioned, much of the segregation was state-enforced. Yes, some businesses would discriminate immorally against certain group/individuals, but that is what boycotts are for.

    On the other hand, I think Paul and Stossel should pick their fights better. People who do not understand fully libertarianism draw all sorts of wild conclusions over this issue.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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  8. #278
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    I do agree with Stossel, although I can see both sides. I am gay. I can imagine certain businesses saying we don't cater to gay people. But should I be able to force them to cater to me? I don't think I should be. Why would I want to give my money to people like that anyway? I would instead create an association of gay-friendly businesses and publicize it. Or create a list of all the companies that discriminate, and give them hell. Bring to light to discrimination that I think is wrong.
    Yes, bring them out in the open. As good of an argument as any.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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  9. #279
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord of Planar View Post
    No. I'm tired of people supporting special rights. That's what it boils down to.

    I actually believe that the people supporting all these "special right" are the racists. By definition, a racist is someone who believes one race is inferior to another. Therefore, I conclude that everyone who believe that minorities need such a helping hand, believes they are inferior.

    This isn't the age of the past, where blacks have little to no opportunity. There are only a very limited few who would deny minorities an equal chance. I say it's time to stop racism, primarily by ignoring the few turds we still have in society. make them meaningless. Legislating racial law, is supporting racism, by definition.
    Equality should never be seen as special. It is not racist to say that all people should be able to go to dinner or shop or see a movie without being denied due to race. It takes a special kind of skewed logic to call those who want equality as racist.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #280
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by a351 View Post
    Absolutely not. Whether or not the businesses in question would have lost competitiveness or eventually went bankrupt is entirely speculatory and irrelevant. Putting into law the principle that no man should be treated as a second class citizen simply because of appearance was a necessary and long overdue measure.
    People discriminate every day. And yet it is not illegal. Libertarians just treat the issue for private businesses the same way we ALL treat the issue for individuals. Now, I will say that this should not even be an issue for discussion. There are a lot of pressing issues, and not allowing businesses to discriminate is not one of them.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
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