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Thread: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

  1. #1811
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    Limited Rights as a "Person:" Because of these two main facets of the corporate form, several rights that we would consider to be individual rights have been given to corporations. For example, corporations can own property and other assets, can buy, sell, or lease property, and have very broad commercial rights so that the corporation can conduct business independent of an individual person and maintain continuity. Because corporations can own assets, they can pay off their debts, thus, it's also ties to limited liability.

    Corporations also have limited noncommercial rights like the right not to incriminate one's self which goes along with being able to be sued. Likewise, corporations have limited fourth amendment rights against searches and seizures and limited first amendment rights (although this is broadening), which are interwoven with the corporation's ability to own property and incur debt. This also continues to encourage corporate business decisions, although some doubt the latest reach of first amendment rights in Citizens United v. FEC, the latest Supreme Court case on this issue. .
    Interesting that companies are often forced to hand over documents, especially internal communications. Sure seems like the corporate equivalent to testifying against one's self to me.


    Of course, persons still aren't "artificial" or have "limited" rights as outlined above, which obviously shows businesses aren't persons. I'm glad you decided to dispense with that BS.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 07-28-13 at 10:04 AM.
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  2. #1812
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Interesting that companies are often forced to hand over documents, especially internal communications. Sure seems like the corporate equivalent to testifying against one's self to me.


    Of course, persons still aren't "artificial" or have "limited" rights as outlined above, which obviously shows businesses aren't persons. I'm glad you decided to dispense with that BS.
    believe what you will.

    the statement says one thing ,you say the other ......and proclaim your right...........strange!
    Last edited by Master PO; 07-28-13 at 07:13 PM.

  3. #1813
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    believe what you will.

    the statement says one thing ,you say the other ......and proclaim your right...........strange!
    What I found strange is that you would go running to the USSC to prove a point while simultaneously denying a whole host of other decisions they've made in relation to the Civil Rights Act.
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    What I found strange is that you would go running to the USSC to prove a point while simultaneously denying a whole host of other decisions they've made in relation to the Civil Rights Act.
    wrong.........i an simply stating what the government has done.

    i am sure you should know by now that 99 % of what the federal government is doing is unconstitutional, from my point of view.

  5. #1815
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    wrong.........i an simply stating what the government has done.

    i am sure you should know by now that 99 % of what the federal government is doing is unconstitutional, from my point of view.
    You used it to try to support your claim that a business is a person, just as you tried mis-quoting US Code for the same purpose. Saying you're "simply stating" is dishonest at best, considering the post quotes that accompany those responses.


    I'm surprised you leave 1% open.

    Not accepting that 99% is the downfall of your kind of Libertarianism. No one wants a world controlled by the corporations except you guys. You should read more about our founders views on the Dutch East India Company.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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  6. #1816
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You used it to try to support your claim that a business is a person, just as you tried mis-quoting US Code for the same purpose. Saying you're "simply stating" is dishonest at best, considering the post quotes that accompany those responses.


    I'm surprised you leave 1% open.

    Not accepting that 99% is the downfall of your kind of Libertarianism. No one wants a world controlled by the corporations except you guys. You should read more about our founders views on the Dutch East India Company.
    does a cockroach have rights.....no

    does a hammer have rights....no

    does a person have rights....yes

    if the cockroach is killed, the hammer destroyed are they consequences for those actions ...no....becuase there are no rights connected to them.

    but if a person is killed /destroyed, there are consequences for that death /destruction ....yes...becuase government is going to want answers, becuase they are concerned about that life and liberty which was taken.

    if a person had no rights at all like the cockroach or the hammer, his death or theft from him would have no consequences, becuase what is government there to secure, since he would have no rights at all.

    when a person owns a business, he has his rights, one being his property rights, to protect himself from theft, fraud, from those who would seek to do him damage.

    however a corporation which is not owned one person, but many shareholders.... so instead i looking at all the rights of the individuals of the corporation. the corporation is treated has as a person... one entity, to protect it from theft, fraud, and from those who would seek to do the entity damage.....this is to insecure those assets of the corporation, like property, money, and the livelihoods of the people who own and work for the corporation cannot be destroyed or property stolen from them.

    if a corporation was not considered a person it would have no rights, it would be like the cockroach or the hammer, and fall prey to anyone to sought to take advantage of it, with no consequences.

    U.S CODE 29 152 states a business, union, corporation is a person, being a person does not begin when its in bankruptcy, but is a person while it is in business.

    as to the 1%, government has 18 powers..its impossible to make it 100%

    government is limited as the founders have stated, but it is you that reject that........and for libertarians....no one wants a word controlled by the government, but in the same breath no one wants a world controlled by corporations.

    what we do want is for people to have their liberty, and when a person or business violates the rights of another person or business, then we what government to act against those who commit that violation, however we dont want a world where government tells us we cant do things, which do not violate the rights of others or cause no damage to property.
    Last edited by Master PO; 07-30-13 at 06:51 PM.

  7. #1817
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    U.S CODE 29 152 states a business, union, corporation is a person, being a person does not begin when its in bankruptcy, but is a person while it is in business.
    I've got a document in my safe that says I'm the "Party of the First Part". Does that mean all documents that have "Party of the First Part" in them refer to me??

    Your reference is only good in that sub-chapter of US Code, which is about the National Labor Relations Board - not part of this discussion. You've been told and shown this simple fact of law may times in this thread. For your continued misuse of this reference and your obvious dishonesty in repeated use of it you get 3/3 ...

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  8. #1818
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    what we do want is for people to have their liberty, and when a person or business violates the rights of another person or business, then we what government to act against those who commit that violation, however we dont want a world where government tells us we cant do things, which do not violate the rights of others or cause no damage to property.
    And yet, if everyone denied you service of any kind and also denied you a job - both of which are legal in your system - you would have to become a thief just to live. Not a world that I want to be a part of, thanks.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  9. #1819
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    does a cockroach have rights.....no
    does a hammer have rights....no
    does a person have rights....yes
    if the cockroach is killed, the hammer destroyed are they consequences for those actions ...no....becuase there are no rights connected to them.
    but if a person is killed /destroyed, there are consequences for that death /destruction ....yes...becuase government is going to want answers, becuase they are concerned about that life and liberty which was taken.
    if a person had no rights at all like the cockroach or the hammer, his death or theft from him would have no consequences, becuase what is government there to secure, since he would have no rights at all.
    when a person owns a business, he has his rights, one being his property rights, to protect himself from theft, fraud, from those who would seek to do him damage.
    however a corporation which is not owned one person, but many shareholders.... so instead i looking at all the rights of the individuals of the corporation. the corporation is treated has as a person... one entity, to protect it from theft, fraud, and from those who would seek to do the entity damage.....this is to insecure those assets of the corporation, like property, money, and the livelihoods of the people who own and work for the corporation cannot be destroyed or property stolen from them.
    if a corporation was not considered a person it would have no rights, it would be like the cockroach or the hammer, and fall prey to anyone to sought to take advantage of it, with no consequences.
    as to the 1%, government has 18 powers..its impossible to make it 100%
    government is limited as the founders have stated, but it is you that reject that........and for libertarians....no one wants a word controlled by the government, but in the same breath no one wants a world controlled by corporations.
    Animals have "rights" under law, too. I believe chimps and cetaceans are intelligent but I wouldn't call a chimpanzee, a dolphin, or a whale a person. Once again your argument fails.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  10. #1820
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    And yet, if everyone denied you service of any kind and also denied you a job - both of which are legal in your system - you would have to become a thief just to live. Not a world that I want to be a part of, thanks.
    you do not have a right to services or a job...you only have a right to seek them.

    you wish to act on emotion, and not what is lawful.

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