View Poll Results: Should the public accommodations portion of the law be repealed?

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  • Yes

    64 52.03%
  • No

    56 45.53%
  • I don't know

    3 2.44%
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Thread: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

  1. #1641
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Yet, you said before that nothing was being taken from Joe. That is obviously not true.

    Joe's diner is having money taken from it; Joe's diner belongs to Joe; therefore Joe is having money taken from him.
    Nothing is being taken from Joe.

    No, Joe made less profit from his business because it was fined for acting contrary to the law but in most cases Joe's personal finances are unaffected by any fines placed on Joe's Diner.


    And, again, Joe can always open a non-OTTP business.
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Yes, I understand what the law is. I am saying that I think the law should be repealed because it is unethical to initiate violence against people or to take their property.

    Do you think it is justified to tell Joe with whom he may trade in his own diner on his own property?
    Joe agreed to the laws when he entered that jurisdiction, just as he would agree to the corporations laws if he enters their corporate limits.

    If Joe's Diner is being operated on said property then it's the property of Joe's Diner, not Joe.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 07-15-13 at 09:57 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Nothing is being taken from Joe.

    No, Joe made less profit from his business because it was fined for acting contrary to the law but in most cases Joe's personal finances are unaffected by any fines placed on Joe's Diner.


    And, again, Joe can always open a non-OTTP business.
    Really? That's your story?

    If Joe owns a business, and the business is fined, that money is being taken from Joe.

    You might as well argue that Joe is not actually being fined, his bank account is being fined.

    Frankly, I've come to expect better from you.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Joe agreed to the laws when he entered that jurisdiction, just as he would agree to the corporations laws if he enters their corporate limits.

    If Joe's Diner is being operated on said property then it's the property of Joe's Diner, not Joe.
    Yes, I understand what the law currently is. I'm saying that I think the law that requires people to ask permission to operate a diner should be repealed. Such a law is an initiation of violence against the person wishing to operate the diner. OTTP license; non-OTTP license; none of them should be required.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    That's not true. Cities and counties both "incorporate" when they become entities and the citizens effected by that incorporation vote on it. Mr. Moneybags doesn't just come into an area and declare a city or county into existence.

    I'm pretty sure States follow a similar process though it's not "incorporation" for a State since Congress must approve entrance into the Union.
    If a corporation decides it wants to buy up all the land in an area, and held a vote to see if the people in that area would allow them to do so, it could not buy up the land of the people who voted no, even if the majority said yes.

    The voters who say yes have no claim to the property of the voters who say no, therefore they can not transfer that property to the government through a vote.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    If a corporation decides it wants to buy up all the land in an area, and held a vote to see if the people in that area would allow them to do so, it could not buy up the land of the people who voted no, even if the majority said yes.

    The voters who say yes have no claim to the property of the voters who say no, therefore they can not transfer that property to the government through a vote.
    Wow, you mean people can't make decisions for other people? Shocking.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Really? That's your story?
    It's the truth and also works in Joe's favor. If someone dies from food poisoning from Joe's Diner then the business assets may be sold off to pay the damages awarded by the court but Joe's personal assets should be unaffected assuming Joe didn't personally commit a criminal act. Employees can sometimes be charged with criminal activity even if they're on the clock, depending on the circumstances.


    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    If Joe owns a business, and the business is fined, that money is being taken from Joe.

    You might as well argue that Joe is not actually being fined, his bank account is being fined.

    Frankly, I've come to expect better from you.
    The money wasn't Joe's to start with, it was the business's "money" just like the money the business uses to pay the business's electric bill and buy raw foods to be cooked for it's customers. Joe's Diner has it's own set of company accounting books that are separate from Joe's personal finances. Joe will get whatever profit is left after all the bills of Joe's Diner are paid - including court decisions that go either way.

    Typically, a business will have it's own bank account. It makes documentation of the accounting easier.

    That comment just put you down a notch in my book.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    It's the truth and also works in Joe's favor. If someone dies from food poisoning from Joe's Diner then the business assets may be sold off to pay the damages awarded by the court but Joe's personal assets should be unaffected assuming Joe didn't personally commit a criminal act. Employees can sometimes be charged with criminal activity even if they're on the clock, depending on the circumstances.


    The money wasn't Joe's to start with, it was the business's "money" just like the money the business uses to pay the business's electric bill and buy raw foods to be cooked for it's customers. Joe's Diner has it's own set of company accounting books that are separate from Joe's personal finances. Joe will get whatever profit is left after all the bills of Joe's Diner are paid - including court decisions that go either way.

    Typically, a business will have it's own bank account. It makes documentation of the accounting easier.

    That comment just put you down a notch in my book.
    If Joe owns the entire business then anything that takes money away from the business takes money away from Joe. The business is his property. If you fine the business you are fining Joe.

  9. #1649
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Yes, I understand what the law currently is. I'm saying that I think the law that requires people to ask permission to operate a diner should be repealed. Such a law is an initiation of violence against the person wishing to operate the diner. OTTP license; non-OTTP license; none of them should be required.
    The laws are there to stop Joe from harming others by opening his business. We've already been through this.

    Again, all you're whining about is that it's a city government instead of a corporation, which would make no functional difference at all.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  10. #1650
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    If Joe owns the entire business then anything that takes money away from the business takes money away from Joe. The business is his property. If you fine the business you are fining Joe.
    Untrue and I've shown why. I've also shown it's to Joe's advantage to have it that way.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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