View Poll Results: Should the public accommodations portion of the law be repealed?

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    64 52.03%
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Thread: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

  1. #1631
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Whose property are these "business assets"?
    They're the property of Joe's Diner, by definition.
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I am aware of the law. I am arguing against the law, on the basis that it is unethical because it is unethical to uninvitedly damage or take another's person or property.
    You're not required in any way to have an OTTP business, which is what pbrauer is talking about. You can license your business as non-OTTP if you so desire.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  3. #1633
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    If he's serving food to people for money then he has opened a business and needs a business license, at which point it is no longer Joe, it's Joe's Diner.
    And that is the law to which I object. As I said, nobody has a right to tell Joe whether or not he may serve people food on his own property. Such a law is an unjustified initiation of violence against Joe. As such, it is unethical and I must oppose it.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    They're the property of Joe's Diner, by definition.
    And who owns Joe's diner?

  5. #1635
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    They did. Again, you need to backtrack to the previous discussion Federalist and I had on this subject. You're jumping into the middle of this discussion without the foundation of it and making claims that are contrary to the situation. Go back to the posts in the 1200's and start reading if you want to take part in this.


    The basic assumption is that a group of people, instead of incorporating as a "government" 100 years ago, gained control (buying, homesteading, whatever) to a 50 mile radius of land and formed a corporation to run it for them. Essentially, all property inside the corporate boundary is subject to the corporate rules and regulations, which function no different than laws, and the corporation is run pretty much the same as a county or city might be with the same goals and intents as a county or city. Your statements so far show ignorance of this. If you want to correct that ignorance and be a rational part of the discussion then go back and read the posts.
    I am familiar with the discussion. If a corporation owns a 50 mile radius of property, then people are subject to the rules of that corporation if they are to live on that property. I get that, and you would be correct. It is not reasonable of you to assume my comment is rooted in ignorance of this discussion.

    My point is, and remains, that no--government in the form we have today is not equivalent to such a corporation. The government does not own the land. The government did not homestead the land, and the government did not legitimately buy the land. Did the colonists agree to sell their property to the U.S. government? No. No such agreement was made. Government simply claimed the territory under its jurisdiction through the use of coercion. The difference is clear.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
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  6. #1636
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    And who owns Joe's diner?
    One would assume from your previous posts that you believe Joe owns Joe's Diner. That doesn't mean Joe and Joe's Diner are the same entity. Joe is a person, Joe's Diner is a business.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  7. #1637
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    And that is the law to which I object. As I said, nobody has a right to tell Joe whether or not he may serve people food on his own property. Such a law is an unjustified initiation of violence against Joe. As such, it is unethical and I must oppose it.
    The corporation can decide what can and can't go on inside it's area to the extent shown in the corporation's laws. Joe knew this when he entered the corporate limits and Joe knew about the encumbrances upon any property within the corporate limits when he bought his property. If Joe doesn't like the situation then Joe has no one to blame but himself.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    One would assume from your previous posts that you believe Joe owns Joe's Diner. That doesn't mean Joe and Joe's Diner are the same entity. Joe is a person, Joe's Diner is a business.
    Yet, you said before that nothing was being taken from Joe. That is obviously not true.

    Joe's diner is having money taken from it; Joe's diner belongs to Joe; therefore Joe is having money taken from him.

  9. #1639
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    The corporation can decide what can and can't go on inside it's area to the extent shown in the corporation's laws. Joe knew this when he entered the corporate limits and Joe knew about the encumbrances upon any property within the corporate limits when he bought his property. If Joe doesn't like the situation then Joe has no one to blame but himself.
    Yes, I understand what the law is. I am saying that I think the law should be repealed because it is unethical to initiate violence against people or to take their property.

    Do you think it is justified to tell Joe with whom he may trade in his own diner on his own property?

  10. #1640
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    I am familiar with the discussion. If a corporation owns a 50 mile radius of property, then people are subject to the rules of that corporation if they are to live on that property. I get that, and you would be correct. It is not reasonable of you to assume my comment is rooted in ignorance of this discussion.

    My point is, and remains, that no--government in the form we have today is not equivalent to such a corporation. The government does not own the land. The government did not homestead the land, and the government did not legitimately buy the land. Did the colonists agree to sell their property to the U.S. government? No. No such agreement was made. Government simply claimed the territory under its jurisdiction through the use of coercion. The difference is clear.
    That's not true. Cities and counties both "incorporate" when they become entities and the citizens effected by that incorporation vote on it. Mr. Moneybags doesn't just come into an area and declare a city or county into existence.

    I'm pretty sure States follow a similar process though it's not "incorporation" for a State since Congress must approve entrance into the Union.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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