View Poll Results: Should the public accommodations portion of the law be repealed?

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Thread: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

  1. #1591
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    How do you know he agreed if he didn't sign a contract?
    He entered or stayed in that community, so unless someone dragged him there or kept him against his will, he agreed to the laws of that community. This is simple civics that everyone should know.
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I can't believe you're still making this argument. Just because he didn't need to open a business doesn't mean or imply it's OK to restrict his liberty because he does.
    No one is restricting his liberty. Only the actions of his business are restricted and Joe is nothing more than an employee of his business. If the business breaks the law, Joe doesn't get hauled away, his business is fined and maybe it's doors are closed (the business equivalent of jail) in extreme cases.

    Regardless of how much you try to push this agenda, a business and a person are not the same thing.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
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  3. #1593
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    He entered or stayed in that community, so unless someone dragged him there or kept him against his will, he agreed to the laws of that community. This is simple civics that everyone should know.
    And from where do these other people around Joe acquire the authority to tell Joe, "Unless you leave, we may use force against you to make you do what we want."

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    And from where do these other people around Joe acquire the authority to tell Joe, "Unless you leave, we may use force against you to make you do what we want."
    Already asked and answered.

    All you're whining about now is it that it's a collection of people that call themselves a government instead of a collection of people that call themselves a corporation. The name makes no difference if the function is the same. Get off the anarchist stick, it won't fly here.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 07-13-13 at 06:45 PM.
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Already asked and answered.

    All you're whining about now is it that it's a collection of people that call themselves a government instead of a collection of people that call themselves a corporation. The name makes no difference if the function is the same. Get off the anarchist stick, it won't fly here.
    The function is not the same. If I live in a high crime area, does that mean that I consent to the crime? Does that mean that the crime is not really crime at all, and if my property is damaged I am consenting to that damage? No. Tolerating injustice because there isn't another option is not the same as consenting to it.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
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  6. #1596
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    The function is not the same. If I live in a high crime area, does that mean that I consent to the crime? Does that mean that the crime is not really crime at all, and if my property is damaged I am consenting to that damage? No. Tolerating injustice because there isn't another option is not the same as consenting to it.
    The function is exactly the same, that's the whole point. Your examples, as off-target as they are, show no difference between a local government and a corporation owned by all the people of the community. If the corporation decides not to police it's streets properly then crimes will most likely happen.

    If you're unhappy with the level of police service you receive from your corporation then you do have options, at least three of them. You can try to win influence over the Board of Directors or CEO by stirring up the other stockholders to get the corporation to fund more police in your area. Or you can find another piece of land with the same corporate foundation but better neighbors and/or police protection. Or you can find land with a different corporate foundation.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 07-14-13 at 06:39 AM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Already asked and answered.
    Link please?

    All you're whining about now is it that it's a collection of people that call themselves a government instead of a collection of people that call themselves a corporation. The name makes no difference if the function is the same. Get off the anarchist stick, it won't fly here.
    Nope. The government initiates violence against people. That's the difference.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    The function is not the same. If I live in a high crime area, does that mean that I consent to the crime? Does that mean that the crime is not really crime at all, and if my property is damaged I am consenting to that damage? No. Tolerating injustice because there isn't another option is not the same as consenting to it.
    Statists would say that the shopkeeper who gets shaken down by the mob ever month for "protection" is consenting to that as well. Consent and endure are two different things.

  9. #1599
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Totally agree with Paul. A business should be able to say whom they will and will not serve. It's their property. And, as Stossel said, I believe the businesses that continued to discriminate would have lost enough business to be shut down. I think of it this way. My faith and belief in the Bible teaches that discriminating based upon color, sex, or anything else is wrong. It also teaches that I should be modest with my sexuality and only share it with my wife. So for me to set foot in an establishment that would not serve blacks would have been the equivalent to setting foot in a bordello. I would not do it because I do not believe in what either establishment represents.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    The function is exactly the same, that's the whole point. Your examples, as off-target as they are, show no difference between a local government and a corporation owned by all the people of the community. If the corporation decides not to police it's streets properly then crimes will most likely happen.

    If you're unhappy with the level of police service you receive from your corporation then you do have options, at least three of them. You can try to win influence over the Board of Directors or CEO by stirring up the other stockholders to get the corporation to fund more police in your area. Or you can find another piece of land with the same corporate foundation but better neighbors and/or police protection. Or you can find land with a different corporate foundation.
    Corporations do not get to control people because they live in a certain area. The only way that is possible is if people explicitly sign up for the services of that corporation. Not so with local government. The function is not the same. One relies on voluntary agreement, the other relies on coercive force. You can try to justify that coercive force as necessary, but you cannot deny it exists.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

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