View Poll Results: Should the public accommodations portion of the law be repealed?

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    64 52.03%
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Thread: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    And how did these people become the authority over Joe and the trades he makes on his own property? How does one person or group of people acquire authority over another?
    Like I said, you're framing it all wrong. Your view is terribly skewed. He is not harmed in any way. He voluntarily entered into business, with the rules firmly established.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    so your saying you have a right to service...to be served....do i have you correct?
    Not to discriminated against due to race, gender, or religion.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Like I said, you're framing it all wrong. Your view is terribly skewed. He is not harmed in any way. He voluntarily entered into business, with the rules firmly established.
    But how did these people become the authority over Joe, such that they can rule over the way he trades on his own property?

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I don't care if you want to restrict the actions of a business. (In fact, I have never seen a business act, so I don't see what such restriction accomplish.) However, I object to using force to restrict the actions of people. Joe has the right to freely engage in trade on his own property does he not?
    In the real world, Joe is a worker at Joe's Diner. Joe's Diner has many rules it must follow to be a business at all and even more if it's an OTTP business.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I don't care what you do to his business. However, I am very concerned if you initiate violence against Joe himself to restrict his ability to freely engage in trade on his own property.
    If Joe is running a business then it's on business property. At the very least, Joe's Diner is leasing the property from Joe the Person.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    No, I'm making a point.

    You want to restrict Joe's ability to freely trade on his own property.

    In order to do so you fabricate something called "a business" and say that you are restriction the actions of "the business". There is no such thing. There is only Joe, and you want to restrict his ability to freely engage in trade. All this "business" talk is just a rationalization.

    Tell you what, go ahead and put the business in jail.
    The business can be fined. The business can declare bankruptcy. Both are different than Joe being fined or declaring bankruptcy.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Yes, it is his business, i.e. an activity in which he engages, i.e. trading with other people. You are saying that you want to use force to interfere with his ability to freely do so. You want violently interfere with Joe's ability to trade with other people on his own property. I contend that initiating force against one's fellow man is unethical and unjustified. Where you get off assuming authority over people's peaceful behavior on their own property is beyond me. You're not the boss of Joe, or do you contend that you are possessed of some sort of divine right to rule your fellow man.
    Joe the Person can do what he wants on Joe the Person's property.

    Joe's Diner and Joe the Cook/Waiter/Cashier that works at that Diner has to follow the rules of Joe's Diner or Joe's Diner can be fined and/or it's license as a business revoked.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    If his diner discriminates against someone, I suggest you arrest and prosecute the diner.

    However, I object to your proposal to use state violence to interfere with the peaceful behavior of Joe and to prevent him from freely trading (or refusing to trade) on his own property.
    In fact, that's exactly what happens. Businesses are fined and sometimes banished from the community/shut down for breaking the law.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Ah yes, "the law", which means an edict issued by a group of people.

    And you feel that these people are legitimately justified in dictating to their fellow man how he may engage in trade on his own property. And how do these people acquire their authority over Joe to dictate how he may engage in trade on his own property. Do they have some special powers? Some sort of divine right that gives them the authority to issue orders ("laws") to their fellow man?
    The people themselves give them that power. If the people don't like it they are free to change the law or leave. No one demands that Joe open an OTTP business in that community. However, if Joe wants to open an OTTP business in that community then there are certain laws he must follow. If he doesn't like the laws then he should consider opening a business somewhere else.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    But how did these people become the authority over Joe, such that they can rule over the way he trades on his own property?
    Joe gave them that authority by entering into his business contract with the community.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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