View Poll Results: Should the public accommodations portion of the law be repealed?

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    64 52.03%
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Thread: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

  1. #1481
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Again, Joe's Diner isn't joe. Everything that goes on there isn't him. It's the business. Don't act like you don't understand this point. We we say Joe's business can't discriminate, we know Joe owns the business. But Joe is not the business.
    You may place any restrictions you want on Joe's business. I don't care about mythical beasties. In fact, I'll let you in on a little secret: I don't think they even really exist.

    I DO however care about the rights of Joe, and I object to your use of violence to restrict his ability to freely engage in trade on his own property.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    You may place any restrictions you want on Joe's business. I don't care about mythical beasties. In fact, I'll let you in on a little secret: I don't think they even really exist.

    I DO however care about the rights of Joe, and I object to your use of violence to restrict his ability to freely engage in trade on his own property.
    What you're doing is ignore the point.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    What you're doing is ignore the point.
    No, I'm making a point.

    You want to restrict Joe's ability to freely trade on his own property.

    In order to do so you fabricate something called "a business" and say that you are restriction the actions of "the business". There is no such thing. There is only Joe, and you want to restrict his ability to freely engage in trade. All this "business" talk is just a rationalization.

    Tell you what, go ahead and put the business in jail.

  4. #1484
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    No, I'm making a point.

    You want to restrict Joe's ability to freely trade on his own property.

    In order to do so you fabricate something called "a business" and say that you are restriction the actions of "the business". There is no such thing. There is only Joe, and you want to restrict his ability to freely engage in trade. All this "business" talk is just a rationalization.

    Tell you what, go ahead and put the business in jail.
    It's his business. It is a business and nit Joe. That's the point. I know you think you're being clever, but thus is the heart if the matter. Jose's Diner isn't Joe. Joe doesn't have to like anyone. Joe can be a bigot. But once he opens those doors to the public, it's not Joe. It's Joe's Diner, a business. What happens within that context isn't about Joe at all, but the business.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It's his business. It is a business and nit Joe. That's the point. I know you think you're being clever, but thus is the heart if the matter. Jose's Diner isn't Joe. Joe doesn't have to like anyone. Joe can be a bigot. But once he opens those doors to the public, it's not Joe. It's Joe's Diner, a business. What happens within that context isn't about Joe at all, but the business.
    Yes, it is his business, i.e. an activity in which he engages, i.e. trading with other people. You are saying that you want to use force to interfere with his ability to freely do so. You want violently interfere with Joe's ability to trade with other people on his own property. I contend that initiating force against one's fellow man is unethical and unjustified. Where you get off assuming authority over people's peaceful behavior on their own property is beyond me. You're not the boss of Joe, or do you contend that you are possessed of some sort of divine right to rule your fellow man.

  6. #1486
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Yes, it is his business, i.e. an activity in which he engages, i.e. trading with other people. You are saying that you want to use force to interfere with his ability to freely do so. You want violently interfere with Joe's ability to trade with other people on his own property. I contend that initiating force against one's fellow man is unethical and unjustified. Where you get off assuming authority over people's peaceful behavior on their own property is beyond me. You're not the boss of Joe, or do you contend that you are possessed of some sort of divine right to rule your fellow man.
    I'm saying its not about him. It's about the business. On his own, separate form the business, he can do anything he wants. HIS freedoms are not infringed. His diner, however, can't infringe on anyone else's. it's a simple, simple concept to follow.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I'm saying its not about him. It's about the business. On his own, separate form the business, he can do anything he wants. HIS freedoms are not infringed. His diner, however, can't infringe on anyone else's. it's a simple, simple concept to follow.
    If his diner discriminates against someone, I suggest you arrest and prosecute the diner.

    However, I object to your proposal to use state violence to interfere with the peaceful behavior of Joe and to prevent him from freely trading (or refusing to trade) on his own property.

  8. #1488
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    If his diner discriminates against someone, I suggest you arrest and prosecute the diner.

    However, I object to your proposal to use state violence to interfere with the peaceful behavior of Joe and to prevent him from freely trading (or refusing to trade) on his own property.
    Now you're going all hyperbolic again. No need to exaggerate. Joe is the responsible party for the business. He is responsible for the business meeting its obligations to follow the law.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Now you're going all hyperbolic again. No need to exaggerate. Joe is the responsible party for the business. He is responsible for the business meeting its obligations to follow the law.
    So now you're saying that Joe is not free to engage (or not engage) in trade on his own property. What do you think gives you (or anyone else) the authority to interfere with Joe's ability to freely trade? Is this some sort of divine right that gives you authority over your fellow man?

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    So now you're saying that Joe is not free to engage (or not engage) in trade on his own property. What do you think gives you (or anyone else) the authority to interfere with Joe's ability to freely trade? Is this some sort of divine right that gives you authority over your fellow man?
    Once he choose to enter into business, that business came subject to rules. yes. You mis-frame this badly all the time, but it is the Diner, what goes on in the diner, now in the public market place that is subject to rules and regulations. Many of them actually.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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