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Thread: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

  1. #1361
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You don't read very much law, contracts, or anything else of that sort, do you?


    Almost all complex laws and legal documents have a definitions section to show specific meanings for the given words in that section of the law or in that contract. This is standard practice used every day in a wide variety of legal documents both public and private. The specific definitions listed in those documents only apply to the documents in question. They do not apply to the world at large or ever the legal system at large, they are very specific to that document, which is why they are defined.

    As such, until such time as we start discussing the specific laws as spelled out in Title 29, Subsection II, "National Labor Relations Board", your quoted definition from that section is invalid. If I honesty thought I you knew what you were doing by quoting it - and then insisting on it as well - I would also say you are being dishonest. But for now I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming it was an honest mistake on your part.


    excuse...lets start at the beginning to straighten you out.

    you said" a business is not a person"

    i said, "not true u.s.code says a business is a person"

    you laughed and stated " what you going to use u.s.code now"

    i stated, "its u.s.code, making business a person", and that all i was making clear to you that was all i was doing.

    now you have gone over the edge into an area i never went into and telling me about laws.

    so to state it to you again, i only stated a business can be a person per u.s.code..........and that's all!

    so why the lesson in laws?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Regardless of what laws are made for animals or how similar they are to laws for persons, animals are still not persons and neither are businesses.
    you will see i never said animal are like people, so why are you saying such a thing.....is this an attempt at confusion on your part, .....and a business is concerned a person under u.s.code 29 152....i dont like it but there it is.


    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Like I said, "only Libertarian ideals". I'm glad you agreed!
    well its to bad individuals like yourself, who believe government can operate outside the constitution

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I already answered your question. I have no idea why something which has not happened has not yet happened. I really do not do well in that sort of Twilight Zone fantasyland territory and prefer to stick with reality.

    that is becuase people dont make their own right, if they did people who grant themselves rights to commodities, and take away rights of the minority and be tyrannical.

    your understanding of the founding documents leaves one feeling so ashamed, of the american school system.

  3. #1363
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    so sad, what the american education system teaches today.
    You think open mindedness is sad? That explains a lot ...
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    i stated to you before dumping and polluting is a crime, of state power, you can have your rights deprived.

    there is no duty which defers to air, water and ground control in our constitution.... becuase we have a federal government not a national one.
    Then you're just not doing your home, which is really no surprise.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    can you give the the authority where government derives that power in its duties?
    I already did, go back and look. I'm tired of your repetition.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Property owners have a right to place conditions on access to their property.
    I never said they didn't. In fact, I've pointed out the same.


    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    It is perfectly reasonable that road owners might require that those using their roads show evidence of, say, competency.
    Road owners?!? Well, at least you've finally decided to accept communities (government) as owners. LOL!


    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    However, I don't see how this relates to a law that makes it a "crime" to trade on one's own property unless one has permission.
    You can sell your car in your driveway and no one will care. It's not a crime - try again.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  7. #1367
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    excuse...lets start at the beginning to straighten you out.
    you said" a business is not a person"
    i said, "not true u.s.code says a business is a person"
    you laughed and stated " what you going to use u.s.code now"
    i stated, "its u.s.code, making business a person", and that all i was making clear to you that was all i was doing.
    now you have gone over the edge into an area i never went into and telling me about laws.
    so to state it to you again, i only stated a business can be a person per u.s.code..........and that's all!
    so why the lesson in laws?

    The only part of the US Code to which that specific definition applies is Title 29, Subchapter II, "National Labor Relations Board". It has no other application anywhere else in law or in the world except in that subsection of Title 29. We are not talking about that subsection so your cited definition does not apply.

    Let's try this. Have you ever read the opening of a contract or court document where they say use the terms "party of the first part" and "party of the second part"? Those "parties" are identified at the beginning of the document and used throughout the document as a specific identifier. Does that mean that since one piece of law or one contract names "John Doe of Podunk USA" as "party of the first part" that ALL documents and laws that say "party of the first part" now refer to "John Doe of Podunk USA"??? What obviously silliness. The same it true for your definition. It only applies to the section of law where the definition is given and applied no where else - including this discussion.

    Now you know what the lesson in laws and this will be the last one.


    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    you will see i never said animal are like people, so why are you saying such a thing.....is this an attempt at confusion on your part, .....and a business is concerned a person under u.s.code 29 152....i dont like it but there it is.
    No, a business is not a 'person' unless we're discussing Chapter 29, Subchapter II, "National Labor Relations Board".
    Is that what we're talking about, the National Labor Relations Board as it pertains to Title 29, Subchapter II?


    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    well its to bad individuals like yourself, who believe government can operate outside the constitution
    It's too bad individuals like yourself believe only your opinions are correct.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  8. #1368
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    that is becuase people dont make their own right, if they did people who grant themselves rights to commodities, and take away rights of the minority and be tyrannical.
    Of course people make their own rights, except those conditions I mentioned earlier, which all living beings share.

    Do you think the Bill of Rights dropped from the Heavens?!? All those people you've been quoting and numerous others both before and after them, dreamed them up to counter and control what they thought were wrongs in their society. Luckily, our Founders understood that even they could not predict the future and built a system that could be changed to meet the demands of that future. Every single one of our Founders was not only a rebel, they were also liberals, throwing away the old laws and injustices in favor of a better, more equal system of laws for all. Their posterity have changed the adjusted those original laws as needed to retain that sense of justice and equality. It's sad so many oppose it.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 07-02-13 at 12:22 PM.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  9. #1369
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Of course people make their own rights, except those conditions I mentioned earlier, which all living beings share.

    Do you think the Bill of Rights dropped from the Heavens?!? All those people you've been quoting and numerous others both before and after them, dreamed them up to counter and control what they thought were wrongs in their society. Luckily, our Founders understood that even they could not predict the future and built a system that could be changed to meet the demands of that future. Every single one of our Founders was not only a rebel, they were also liberals, throwing away the old laws and injustices in favor of a better, more equal system of laws for all. Their posterity have changed the adjusted those original laws as needed to retain that sense of justice and equality. It's sad so many oppose it.
    It seems that when it comes to rights, some people have never grown out of the Tooth Fairy experience as small children. The idea that some magical deity gives you things - like Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny or the Gods on high in Mt. Olympus bestowing personal gifts upon mankind. People have a right to believe in such things but rights come from two very clear developments

    1 - enough people in a society decide that they want a certain behavior protected as a right,
    2 - they exert enough power to force the government to recognize that government as a right

    That is how all of our rights came to be. As fanciful as it is to think of some great 250 foot deity sitting up on high dispensing rights like rain and snow, its just a belief that was constructed to enable people to get their minds wrapped around something that is fairly simple when you get down to it.
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  10. #1370
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by mosurveyor View Post
    of course people make their own rights, except those conditions i mentioned earlier, which all living beings share.

    Do you think the bill of rights dropped from the heavens?!? All those people you've been quoting and numerous others both before and after them, dreamed them up to counter and control what they thought were wrongs in their society. Luckily, our founders understood that even they could not predict the future and built a system that could be changed to meet the demands of that future. Every single one of our founders was not only a rebel, they were also liberals, throwing away the old laws and injustices in favor of a better, more equal system of laws for all. Their posterity have changed the adjusted those original laws as needed to retain that sense of justice and equality. It's sad so many oppose it.

    lol....

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