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Thread: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

  1. #1301
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I'm not aware of any right to start a business.

    As far as you guys have shown, there's not even a (constitutional) right to property, though you have so far demonstrated that IF people own property it's can't be taken away from them without due process.

    PS
    Oh, and you've shown that Congress can dictate intellectual property rights.
    /PS



    Your ideas about what constitutes a free society and mine are obviously not the same, so why bother using that misleading phrase?
    no such thing as a constitutional right..that's false, you have natural rights.

    ask yourself.. if you have no right to property, can you make decisions regarding your own body.......no

    if people have no right to property, then that would mean all property people possess, would come from the government, and they would have control over you in ever aspect of life.

    property rights are the cornerstone of ALL rights.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Considering air and water aren't limited to one state, businesses that pollute in one state can sure as hell damage people in another state. And what laws cover those situations?
    that's true....and when one state pollutes another state, its time for the federal government to step in and settle the dispute between the two

    that is power under the constitution given to the court in this kind of case, and here it is:

    The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;--to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;--to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;--to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;--to Controversies between two or more States;-- between a State and Citizens of another State,--between Citizens of different States,--between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    are you kidding...........then what?????..is it saying cannot be deprived, unless due process of law............rights can only be deprived by due process....
    Deprivation: A taking away or confiscation

    They can't take your toothbrush away from you without due process - assuming you own one at all. This could be for reasons of condemnation, eminent domain, or punishment (like a fine).


    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    really, show me where congress is given authority to regulate commerce inside a state per the constitution.?
    What inside a state? It's interstate commerce.

    But you're right - maybe the Fed should start charging the states for air traffic control duties that are strictly inside the state lines.


    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    right and that is a state power,........ states duty is also to protect the people.

    the federal government was not given authority over the land of states..states are sovereign.
    When pollution passes from one state to another it's no longer inside the state. Hence, the EPA. Is Texas putting up a 20 mile high wall to stop their air pollution from entering Louisiana, Oklahoma, and New Mexico? It will also need to be a very deep wall to make sure those pesky water pollutants don't migrate underground, too. Well, if they do all that you let me know and we'll talk again.
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    not true, read u.s. Code 29 152
    Wait. Now you're going to run to the courts after rejecting everything else the courts have said over countless threads?!? You get 3/3 for that one! Too funny!




    But you really should look closer at what you cite. This is from Subchapter II - National Labor Relations - Definitions and starts off with "When used in this subchapter ---".

    Does this mean you are you willing to accept everything in Title 29 as gospel? You might want to read it over before you decide to answer - there may be things in there with which you disagree. In fact, I'd bet there are plenty of things in there you reject out of hand.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 07-01-13 at 05:48 PM.
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Deprivation: A taking away or confiscation

    They can't take your toothbrush away from you without due process - assuming you own one at all. This could be for reasons of condemnation, eminent domain, or punishment (like a fine).
    what to you think you are doing by telling me i have not a right to run my business according to my likes, or my right to association.

    a crime must be committed, and due process of law must take place for any right, including right of property to be removed ..you cant control my rights if i have committed no crime, or the health/safety of business or people is not at risk.

    you whole argument is based out of emotion, in you want people to be treated equal and fair, but those things dont apply in constitutional law to people or business, becuase they dont make law, government does so in there creations, people have to be treated fairly under those laws.

    and government has no authority under the constitution to apply force to people



    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    What inside a state? It's interstate commerce.

    But you're right - maybe the Fed should start charging the states for air traffic control duties that are strictly inside the state lines.

    here is the constitution:

    To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes;

    James Madison, Federalist, no. 42, 283--85
    22 Jan. 1788

    "The defect of power in the existing confederacy, to regulate the commerce between its several members, is in the number of those which have been clearly pointed out by experience"

    translation: Madison is saying under the articles.. commerce between the members, the states has a defect, and commerce has been turned over to the federal government for regulation among the members, the states, ..it never gives congress power to regulate inside the states...that's a state power.



    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    When pollution passes from one state to another it's no longer inside the state. Hence, the EPA. Is Texas putting up a 20 mile high wall to stop their air pollution from entering Louisiana, Oklahoma, and New Mexico? It will also need to be a very deep wall to make sure those pesky water pollutants don't migrate underground, too. Well, if they do all that you let me know and we'll talk again.
    you putting the cart before the horse.

    the federal government is here to solve disputes between states when problems occur.

    they are not given power to dictate to states, you shall not do!

    the EPA is not a constitutional duty, its not enumerated, ...therefore according to the 10th amendment its a state power.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I just don't get it. Why would a yuppie bar want to be in that location?
    Relatively close to where they work and live.
    Last edited by MoSurveyor; 07-01-13 at 05:59 PM.
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Wait. Now you're going to run to the courts after rejecting everything else the courts have said over countless threads?!? You get 3/3 for that one! Too funny!

    well if you look at a thread in this section ,about returning senators appointment back to the states...i stated in there i would get rid of u.s. code 29 152....i just stated it to you it was law, i dont like it .........but its law......now it you want to discuss whether it legal or not that's another matter.

    so your only making yourself look silly, by your statement.


    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    But you really should look closer at what you cite. This is from Subchapter II - National Labor Relations - Definitions and starts off with "When used in this subchapter ---".
    well do you not see these entities being treated as people?..yes they are.



    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Does this mean you are you willing to accept everything in Title 29 as gospel? You might want to read it over before you decide to answer - there may be things in there with which you disagree. In fact, I'd bet there are plenty of things in there you reject out of hand.
    government can make code, however it must be within the constitution, and most of what government does is unconstitutional, becuase they are limited by said constitution to only 18 duties.../which is what makes me a libertarian

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You here I thought you just agreed pollution has victims.

    Make up your mind!
    We are not talking about pollution. We are talking about the "crime" of engaging in trade without a government-issued permission slip. You have not demonstrated how this "crime" does any damage to anyone's person or property.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    no such thing as a constitutional right..that's false, you have natural rights.
    The only "natural" rights, of you want to call them that, are the right to try to survive and the right to try to procreate. Everything else is pretty much man-made.


    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    ask yourself.. if you have no right to property, can you make decisions regarding your own body.......no
    My body isn't property. You guys, I swear ...


    And, if we REALLY want to get philosophical here, I don't believe we have conscious free will, so that line of attack is useless with me.


    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    if people have no right to property, then that would mean all property people possess, would come from the government, and they would have control over you in ever aspect of life.
    Other than the obvious abilities power gives one, you are absolutely correct. Without others - that means government of one kind or another - who would recognize your ownership of anything?


    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    property rights are the cornerstone of ALL rights.
    So says one theory.
    There are many other theories out there.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    that's true....and when one state pollutes another state, its time for the federal government to step in and settle the dispute between the two

    that is power under the constitution given to the court in this kind of case, and here it is:

    The judicial Power shall extend to all Cases, in Law and Equity, arising under this Constitution, the Laws of the United States, and Treaties made, or which shall be made, under their Authority;--to all Cases affecting Ambassadors, other public Ministers and Consuls;--to all Cases of admiralty and maritime Jurisdiction;--to Controversies to which the United States shall be a Party;--to Controversies between two or more States;-- between a State and Citizens of another State,--between Citizens of different States,--between Citizens of the same State claiming Lands under Grants of different States, and between a State, or the Citizens thereof, and foreign States, Citizens or Subjects.
    Oh, good. Then you agree all the people upriver from us can no longer use the Missouri as their dumping ground! Excellent!


    Being more realistic, what state in their right mind would allow anyone or anything out of state to put any kind of pollution in their air or water? That's about the most ridiculous thing I've heard yet. I suggest you do your homework with regards to the EPA before you start tripping over yourself.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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