View Poll Results: Should the public accommodations portion of the law be repealed?

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    64 52.03%
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    56 45.53%
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Thread: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

  1. #1221
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    MoSurveyor's Avatar
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Preventing someone from trading with others without a permission slip is a violation of property rights in the first place.
    So now you've wandered into to your anarchist Fantasy Land. I'm not playing that game here.
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    So now you've wandered into to your anarchist Fantasy Land. I'm not playing that game here.
    Suit yourself, but one doesn't have to be an anarchist to oppose the victimless "crime" of engaging in trade without a permission slip. It's a violation of property rights.

  3. #1223
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Suit yourself, but one doesn't have to be an anarchist to oppose the victimless "crime" of engaging in trade without a permission slip. It's a violation of property rights.
    You can call it minarchist if you wish - doesn't change a thing. No one is going to let you buy up 10 residential lots in a subdivision to open up a Quick Trip. That's Fantasy Land.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    You can call it minarchist if you wish - doesn't change a thing. No one is going to let you buy up 10 residential lots in a subdivision to open up a Quick Trip. That's Fantasy Land.
    Well there's certainly nothing wrong with the owners in a subdivision entering into a covenant that would prevent them or any future owner from doing so.

    However, to establish the victimless "crime" of engaging in trade without a government-issued permission slip is definitely a violation of property rights.

  5. #1225
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    ttwtt78640's Avatar
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    Well there's certainly nothing wrong with the owners in a subdivision entering into a covenant that would prevent them or any future owner from doing so.

    However, to establish the victimless "crime" of engaging in trade without a government-issued permission slip is definitely a violation of property rights.
    I disagree. Your property rights include zoning law protection. If you desire a commercial plot then buy/lease one. To have your home adjacent to a convienience/liquor store or even a business that frequently hosts weddings/parties invites trouble from the added traffic noise and frequent wanderings of those visiting it that are either drunk or on drugs. Even if you personally do not care about that, many potential buyers do - the value, taxation and resale/lease potential of a lot will vary based upon its zoning and the use/condition of adjacent (and nearby) lots.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I disagree. Your property rights include zoning law protection. If you desire a commercial plot then buy/lease one. To have your home adjacent to a convienience/liquor store or even a business that frequently hosts weddings/parties invites trouble from the added traffic noise and frequent wanderings of those visiting it that are either drunk or on drugs. Even if you personally do not care about that, many potential buyers do - the value, taxation and resale/lease potential of a lot will vary based upon its zoning and the use/condition of adjacent (and nearby) lots.
    I agree with the intent, but not the means. If people want to ensure that a liquor store doesn't open in their neighborhood, then they can simply to all agree to a covenant that prevents that. Then those who want such rules can buy in that neighborhood. Those that don't care, can buy somewhere else. There's no need to violate people's property rights to make this happen.

  7. #1227
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    So now you've wandered into to your anarchist Fantasy Land. I'm not playing that game here.
    I do not think its fair to suggest that the poster has wandered into Fantasy Land. Such a statement supposes that the poster has left Fantasy Land at one time and resided in the real world. There is no evidence of that.
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I agree with the intent, but not the means. If people want to ensure that a liquor store doesn't open in their neighborhood, then they can simply to all agree to a covenant that prevents that. Then those who want such rules can buy in that neighborhood. Those that don't care, can buy somewhere else. There's no need to violate people's property rights to make this happen.
    And that is what municipal zoning laws are.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

  9. #1229
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    ttwtt78640's Avatar
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Federalist View Post
    I agree with the intent, but not the means. If people want to ensure that a liquor store doesn't open in their neighborhood, then they can simply to all agree to a covenant that prevents that. Then those who want such rules can buy in that neighborhood. Those that don't care, can buy somewhere else. There's no need to violate people's property rights to make this happen.
    Zoning laws are exactly that, simply on a larger scale. Only a few places, that I am aware of, are not subject to state, county or local zoning laws - Houston, TX is one.

    Zoning in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    And that is what municipal zoning laws are.
    No. Zoning laws are different. They are not enacted by means of a signed contract. They are imposed.

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