View Poll Results: Should the public accommodations portion of the law be repealed?

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Thread: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

  1. #1051
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I think you'll find many, many people would point you in the direction of the 2nd Amendment to answer that.


    Again, I personally believe your scenario will never get that far and a future violent American Revolution just isn't in the cards, IMO. There would be a relatively bloodless coup by "patriots" first.
    Still not much of a Constitution if the court can order that "the people of america have no rights at all and the government can do whatever it wants to them" and such an order is considered constitutional simply because the court said it.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
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  2. #1052
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    first of all, all business do not have restrooms....pawn shops, auto zone, card shops, food trucks, investment institutions.

    <snip>
    All have restrooms for their employees if nothing else.

    Do you want me to repeat what you just quoted:
    "I mentioned earlier that different businesses had different requirements ..."


    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    But there is no authority of a city or state or federal government to tell people how to behave to other people...meaning being civil....and owner of a business can be nasty to a customer, its not unlawful...the business owner will not get any business, but he free to act according to his likes.
    If he wants to get nasty with people that's on him. I don't know of any law that says business personnel have to be civil.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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  3. #1053
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Then I would say that is fitting considering that Marx believed in exactly the same silliness.
    The same silliness you were just talking about?
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
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  4. #1054
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    The same silliness you were just talking about?
    Yes. As you know it all started with your idea that government is origin of our rights. It's really an idea that is fantastic in it's history, it's implication, and it's supporters.

  5. #1055
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    But it is the owners of the business that would be doing the discriminating...so my point still stands. You don't need a private membership to get into a club.
    Maybe not but it's still a private club, not OTTP. I've been to private clubs that were private just to avoid certain laws, like nudity. You "buy" a one-day membership for a quarter and you're in. Since a lot of night clubs have a cover change anyway, it wouldn't change a thing for them. Personally, I think all the "buy the cheap one day membership" garbage should just be thrown out. A private club is private and should be required to advertise that way, if it advertises at all.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Again, why the distinction? A business that wont serve blacks is clearly not open to everyone...so its clearly not pretending like it is.
    Aren't black people part of the public? The bigoted store owner my not think so but virtually everyone else does so that's the definition he's stuck with. If he doesn't admit blacks then he's plainly not OTTP.


    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    No you haven't. Define it again if its so easy to do. A club, like a dance club. That was were this all started. I was referring to dress codes that many of these clubs have.
    I just did, again. I do it constantly as I make these posts.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
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  6. #1056
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Yes. As you know it all started with your idea that government is origin of our rights. It's really an idea that is fantastic in it's history, it's implication, and it's supporters.
    Then you should re-read the beginning post. It starts off ...

    "Aside from the physical force you can use to claim something (whether others might consider it your property or not) ..."
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  7. #1057
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Maybe not but it's still a private club, not OTTP. I've been to private clubs that were private just to avoid certain laws, like nudity. You "buy" a one-day membership for a quarter and you're in. Since a lot of night clubs have a cover change anyway, it wouldn't change a thing for them. Personally, I think all the "buy the cheap one day membership" garbage should just be thrown out. A private club is private and should be required to advertise that way, if it advertises at all.
    But they are still open to the public in the sense that anyone can apply to be a member...And that still doesn't answer the question. Why should they be allowed to discriminate? Are you saying they shouldn't?

    Aren't black people part of the public? The bigoted store owner my not think so but virtually everyone else does so that's the definition he's stuck with. If he doesn't admit blacks then he's plainly not OTTP.
    But he doesn't have that option under the law. He can't just have a regular store and say no blacks. They are required to be open to the public regardless of whether or not they want to be.


    I just did, again. I do it constantly as I make these posts.
    No you didn't. If you thought you did, it was incredibly unclear. Simply state "the definition of public is...." that's all I'm asking.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
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  8. #1058
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    please tell me how i can violate a persons rights, ...if i dont commit a crime........i am waiting for this...becuase its going to be good, for you to try and explain that!
    if the law says don't do this, and you do, you've violated the law. but I can't demonstrate the harm any better than the civil rights movement. Learn how we got here before you enter into this again, . . . please.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    So why must someone meet your needs to have food or lodging? Both of those seem very much like personal issues that you need to resolve on your own or find willing members of society to give you.
    Read the court case and learn history. Then get back to me.


    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    So a business that has less customers has more right to discriminate? That doesn't make much sense either. Even with your own example. A hotel in a small town may have very few customers. In terms of usage and number it has even less customers than the local club. By your logic, it should be allowed to discriminate--if public means "used more."

    Nobody has to sell either. This makes much more sense when you look at things in terms of an exchange, rather than buying and selling. When I go into a store, I exchange $10 for a book. Why should the store owner be forced to exchange his book for my dollars, but I not forced to exchange my dollars for his book? If everyone discriminates against the store owner, how will he afford his lodging? How will he afford his food? He will be unable to meet those needs too.

    Its easy for you to say I am ignorant of history because its not an argument and it requires no thought whatsoever. But sorry, I'm not. I get that discrimination was rampant and horrible. I know its history. But you need to justify the discrepancies I am pointing out.
    You're right; you can close up shop. But outside a few minor exceptions, if you choose to open shop, don't discriminate. it's really easy.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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