View Poll Results: Should the public accommodations portion of the law be repealed?

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  • Yes

    64 52.03%
  • No

    56 45.53%
  • I don't know

    3 2.44%
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Thread: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

  1. #1041
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Sounds like communism - and, no, I don't mean the USSR type that never was communism.
    Then I would say that is fitting considering that Marx believed in exactly the same silliness.

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    oh? all your doing is saying i am wrong.that's all, i have the pictures of the actual documents which the states ratified, and they all have the preamble on them.
    Take it here, we've already done this dance ...

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/...post1061879914
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    We're a Republic but that doesn't change what I said.
    the u.s. has a republican form of government not a democratic form of government.

    YOU will find this info if you read
    Repeating just to preach?!?

    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    in what way?

    now a company cannot pray, or bare a firearm, but it most certainly has a right to be secure, due process, and the right to petition government and the right to voice its opinion becuase the comapny is owned by either one, a few ,or the many.
    You've answered your own question.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    I would say it is an illegitimate use of power. Clearly unconstitutional, with the courts abusing their power and acting against the Constitution. I am asking if it is constitutional, not legal. I agree it would be "legal". There is a slight distinction there. Legality refers to the law, but the law can be constitutional or unconstitutional.
    The letter of the law is the only reasonable way to answer your purely fictional scenario. Somewhere there has to be a final arbiter of what is and isn't constitutional and we've chosen the USSC for that. Unless the USSC or other federal court strikes down a law for being unconstitutional, the law stands and is constitutional.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post <-------------------------------oh its not, then can you ... blah--blah--blah-blah-blah-blah
    excuse me?..........but where did you get this quote from me...of what you have posted?
    Will you please direct me to this quote!
    All you have to do is click on the little double-arrow icon next the quoted poster's name to find what post the quote came from ...
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

  7. #1047
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    The letter of the law is the only reasonable way to answer your purely fictional scenario. Somewhere there has to be a final arbiter of what is and isn't constitutional and we've chosen the USSC for that. Unless the USSC or other federal court strikes down a law for being unconstitutional, the law stands and is constitutional.
    Not much of a constitution then, is it, if the government can just declare anything constitutional.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Well yes, that is the point of this discussion. Why should that be the case?
    For any business, there are certain minimums you have to meet. Some basic accounting standards for tax purposes, safety concerns, health concerns, etc., etc,. Most of these things people do in their personal lives as well and for the same reasons but most aren't a requirement for individuals. In a business it's not just the owners that are there. There are also employees and maybe private members.

    For OTTP businesses there are more requirements because the general public is involved, instead of just your own employees and private members.

    If a farmer does nothing but drive around the farm he doesn't need a driver's license. If he takes to the open road, he does. Why is that?


    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Businesses are people too, unless you think businesses are made up of aliens. And why it ok for a businessman to refuse to sell to black people in that case? How is that discrimination ok? Say he is a car salesman, with a business "open to the public." He could refuse to sell the exact same car, and that is no longer allowed. Why? Its a distinction that has no actual bearing on any principle I can think of.

    Furthermore, I will ask you the same question I asked Boo Radley. How do you define "public"? A club is not a public accommodation, but it sure seems public to me. There are lots of people at clubs, and the doors are opened to them.
    I've already said they can make whatever rules they want if they're not an OTTP business. The distinction is they are open to the public, which means any and all comers. If you don't want everyone to do business with you then you shouldn't act like you do by having an OTTP business.

    I've defined OTTP many times already.
    What do you mean by a club? I have no idea what you're talking about here.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lakryte View Post
    Not much of a constitution then, is it, if the government can just declare anything constitutional.
    I think you'll find many, many people would point you in the direction of the 2nd Amendment to answer that.


    Again, I personally believe your scenario will never get that far and a future violent American Revolution just isn't in the cards, IMO. There would be a relatively bloodless coup by "patriots" first.
    Mt. Rushmore: Three surveyors and some other guy.
    Life goes on within you and without you. -Harrison
    Hear the echoes of the centuries, Power isn't all that money buys. -Peart
    After you learn quantum mechanics you're never really the same again. -Weinberg

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    Re: Do You Agree with John Stossel?

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    For any business, there are certain minimums you have to meet. Some basic accounting standards for tax purposes, safety concerns, health concerns, etc., etc,. Most of these things people do in their personal lives as well and for the same reasons but it's not a requirement. In a business it's not just the owners that are there.

    For OTTP businesses there are more requirements because the general public is involved, instead of just your own employees and private members.

    If a farmer does nothing but drive around the farm he doesn't need a driver's license. If he takes to the open road, he does. Why is that?
    But it is the owners of the business that would be doing the discriminating...so my point still stands. You don't need a private membership to get into a club.

    I've already said they can make whatever rules they want if they're not an OTTP business. The distinction is they are open to the public, which means any and all comers. If you don't want everyone to do business with you then you shouldn't act like you do by having an OTTP business.
    Again, why the distinction? A business that wont serve blacks is clearly not open to everyone...so its clearly not pretending like it is.

    I've defined OTTP many times already.
    What do you mean by a club? I have no idea what you're talking about here.
    No you haven't. Define it again if its so easy to do. A club, like a dance club. That was were this all started. I was referring to dress codes that many of these clubs have.
    "Give me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free."
    "When we live authentically we create an opportunity for others to walk out of their dark prisons of pretend into freedom."

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