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Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

Should the sadistic billionaire's offer be legal?

  • Total voters
    30
This, along with prostitution, should be illegal.
 
Peter King said:
It would be immoral and illegal for any doctor to participate in such a twisted plan.

I also think it should be illegal, legal adult prostitution cannot be compared to people paying for other people to disfigure themselves for money.
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It seems to me it would be better if a doctor was involved. Not only would be it safer, but it would be easier to confirm consent.
 
Henrin said:
It seems to me it would be better if a doctor was involved. Not only would be it safer, but it would be easier to confirm consent.
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but no doctor would do such a thing because it is illegal and might get him disqualified as a doctor (or at least I would hope it would cause him/her to be thrown out of the profession).
 
Lakryte said:
People have the right to harm themselves or put themselves in harms way if they choose to do so. If somebody offered me 1 million dollars if I cut off my small toe, I would do it. And if you tried making that illegal, you would be the one trying to control me--not the guy offering me the money. You don't have a right to make choices illegal that you yourself wouldn't make. What you subjectively think is not objective truth. Period.
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The hypothetical wasn't about a small toe, it was about eyeballs. What if someone paid you two million to take your leg at the knee? You would offer your small toe because you don't need it.

There are people in this world desperate enough to sell things that they do need.

There are parents in India who sell their children for food. They don't do this because they want to, they do it because they are desperate.

If you can't see desperation as part of the human condition, that simply speaks to your naivete. Libertarians are only to be found in the most pampered regions of the world, where destitution is not a reality.

Why do you suppose that is? Perhaps because the idea that we are all on equal footing, transacting as consenting adults, is a naive and narrow worldview that could only be espoused by the most privileged among us?
 
Prostitution is organ trading of the third kind.

So much for "owning your own body"....can't sell it, can't sell parts, can't put some fun stuff in it.


Peter Grimm said:
So is prostitution. Yet most seem to think that law is wrong.
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Peter King said:
but no doctor would do such a thing because it is illegal and might get him disqualified as a doctor (or at least I would hope it would cause him/her to be thrown out of the profession).
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We are talking about a situation where it legal to consent to have your eyes removed to sell them. There is reason to bar doctors from doing the operation in that situation.
 
I'm 69 years old and not very cute. If prostitution didn't exist, where would I get a nooky supply? I suppose I could rape somebody but I bet you don't approve of that either.





(just making conversation)



digsbe said:
This, along with prostitution, should be illegal.
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Peter King said:
It would be immoral and illegal for any doctor to participate in such a twisted plan.

I also think it should be illegal, legal adult prostitution cannot be compared to people paying for other people to disfigure themselves for money.
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You are paying someone to harm themselves. That's the analogy.
 
specklebang said:
I'm 69 years old and not very cute. If prostitution didn't exist, where would I get a nooky supply? I suppose I could rape somebody but I bet you don't approve of that either.





(just making conversation)
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Find a 69 year old woman.
 
Someone should sell Obama their balls since he doesn't have any of his own.

Name your price!
 
Ewwww. Gross.
imgres-1.jpegimgres-2.jpeg

Now, do you understand? Only one of these 2 choices seems to arouse my mighty manhood. Which one shall I choose - you get the other one. I forgot to mention that one is $500 and the other....$20 dinner at MacDonalds.




Peter Grimm said:
Find a 69 year old woman.
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Peter Grimm said:
The hypothetical wasn't about a small toe, it was about eyeballs. What if someone paid you two million to take your leg at the knee? You would offer your small toe because you don't need it.

There are people in this world desperate enough to sell things that they do need.

There are parents in India who sell their children for food. They don't do this because they want to, they do it because they are desperate.

If you can't see desperation as part of the human condition, that simply speaks to your naivete. Libertarians are only to be found in the most pampered regions of the world, where destitution is not a reality.

Why do you suppose that is? Perhaps because the idea that we are all on equal footing, transacting as consenting adults, is a naive and narrow worldview that could only be espoused by the most privileged among us?
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Who cares what the hypothetical are about? A hypothetical foot model would need his or her small toe, so probably wouldn't take my previous hypothetical offer. Ok, so what? Different people will take different offers and agree to different things--its all subjective. Which is ironic, since you are the one who wants to force everyone to make the choices you think are objectively right.

So what if people are desperate? I'm desperate for $1 million to the degree I am willing to sacrifice other things for $1 million. Your appeal to desperation doesn't change anything. If I am starving in the street, about to die, and I am offered a million bucks to cut off my leg or gouge out my eyes, I'd probably do it. By making that illegal you are killing me. You are the control freak who doesn't want people to be able to make their own choices. If someone thinks cutting off their leg and becoming rich is better than the other options, that is their decision to make--not yours. You have no right to prohibit them from choosing the option they subjectively view as best.
 
Peter Grimm said:
This is in direct response to the "should prostitution be legal" thread, and is intended to make you think. It surprises me how many of you answered "yes" to the question, this in spite of all the data which shows prostitutes suffer from a variety of diseases and psychological disorders - including heightened suicide rates - as a direct result of their profession.

Therefore, you are saying it's OK to pay someone to harm themselves as long as both parties are consenting. Fine, but how far are you willing to take this logic?

Here is a hypothetical question, answer it "yes" or "no."



Suppose a sadistic billionaire went around offering poor people a million dollars each to have their eyes removed. The procedure would be carried out by a licensed plastic surgeon, under sedation, in a certified medical facility. Should that be legal? Both parties are consenting.

What if the sadistic billionaire offered one of your parents, or your adult children, and they accepted? Should that be legal?

What if the sadistic billionaire offered someone high on drugs, or a heavily addicted drug addict? What if they offered the elderly, or mentally impaired?

Is it simply a case of two consenting adults involved in a financial transaction, or is there more to it? Is the sadistic billionaire taking advantage of the poor person's problems?
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I don't see your scenarios as 'logic'. there is a vast difference from renting a woman's vagina and taking her eyes. Between using a surrogate mother and buying her kid without any screening or oversight. You can give your baby up for adoption, you can ask for 'expenses' to be covered, but you can't auction your baby nor put it on Craigslist.

This borders on the 'if gays get to marry then what stops men from marrying goats' sort of flawed logic.
 
specklebang said:
Ewwww. Gross.
View attachment 67149195View attachment 67149196

Now, do you understand? Only one of these 2 choices seems to arouse my mighty manhood. Which one shall I choose - you get the other one. I forgot to mention that one is $500 and the other....$20 dinner at MacDonalds.
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The thing is, they're not objects, those are two photos of people. No offense, but what does it do to that young girl's self esteem when she realizes she has to sleep with a 69 year old man to make rent, or supply her drug habit?

You're helping to destroy someone's life so that you can get your rocks off, and that's just wrong.
 
notquiteright said:
I don't see your scenarios as 'logic'. there is a vast difference from renting a woman's vagina and taking her eyes. Between using a surrogate mother and buying her kid without any screening or oversight. You can give your baby up for adoption, you can ask for 'expenses' to be covered, but you can't auction your baby nor put it on Craigslist.

This borders on the 'if gays get to marry then what stops men from marrying goats' sort of flawed logic.
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I'm not having this turn in to a debate about gays. If you want that, turn to about 10,000 other threads here on DP.

People sell their children illegally, people prostitute themselves illegally.

Obviously there is a difference in extremity between taking someone's eyes and taking their self-esteem. That's why I put the price of someone's eyes at a million bucks, while the price of a lay is I guess, according to speckle, from $20 to $500 depending on how much the girl thinks she's worth. However, both are harmful.

I will have to look up the statistics, but since we know prostitutes kill themselves at a rate 40 times higher than the average person, my guess would be that amputees kill themselves at about the same rate. Would have to check though.
 
Let me tell you about Sonia's self-esteem. Sonia is the younger one.

She is a professional actress. Everything I say fascinates her. My member is just the right size. I'm awesome and the best lover she ever had. In return, she has to spend one hour with me and make more than a MacDonalds worker makes in a week of 8 hour days. Sonia has more money than I do.

Her self-esteem is just fine, bordering on arrogance I suspect.

Don't confuse professional escorts with slave girls. I wouldn't use a slave girl - I'd call the cops.

Most people don't love their jobs. Sonia loves hers. So I'm old and wrinkled. So what? She closes her eyes and thinks of Justin Beiber (or something like that). Just as you do when you're not that excited about your date (not Justin Beiber but you know what I mean).





Peter Grimm said:
The thing is, they're not objects, those are two photos of people. No offense, but what does it do to that young girl's self esteem when she realizes she has to sleep with a 69 year old man to make rent, or supply her drug habit?

You're helping to destroy someone's life so that you can get your rocks off, and that's just wrong.
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Lakryte said:
Who cares what the hypothetical are about? A hypothetical foot model would need his or her small toe, so probably wouldn't take my previous hypothetical offer. Ok, so what? Different people will take different offers and agree to different things--its all subjective. Which is ironic, since you are the one who wants to force everyone to make the choices you think are objectively right.

So what if people are desperate? I'm desperate for $1 million to the degree I am willing to sacrifice other things for $1 million. Your appeal to desperation doesn't change anything. If I am starving in the street, about to die, and I am offered a million bucks to cut off my leg or gouge out my eyes, I'd probably do it. By making that illegal you are killing me. You are the control freak who doesn't want people to be able to make their own choices. If someone thinks cutting off their leg and becoming rich is better than the other options, that is their decision to make--not yours. You have no right to prohibit them from choosing the option they subjectively view as best.
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It has nothing to do with me or my rights. We, as a society, have a duty.... not a right.... to protect the vulnerable.

None of us want to live in a society where you have sickos willing to pay people to chop off limbs for fun. Thus, we legislate against it (it is illegal, BTW).
 
Henrin said:
We are talking about a situation where it legal to consent to have your eyes removed to sell them. There is reason to bar doctors from doing the operation in that situation.
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what law or government would allow doctors to break the hippocratic oath in such a blatant manner?
 
Peter Grimm said:
It has nothing to do with me or my rights. We, as a society, have a duty.... not a right.... to protect the vulnerable.

None of us want to live in a society where you have sickos willing to pay people to chop off limbs for fun. Thus, we legislate against it (it is illegal, BTW).
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And by protect the vulnerable you mean control and limit their decisions. I would rather live in a society where people can be paid to have their limbs chopped off and make their own choices than a society where moral busybodies like you make things they don't agree with illegal.
 
You got that 40 times rate from rapeis.org and if you pose the question on google you'll get 100 different answers. I call BS on this - it's just agenda statistics - just like the claim that 13 is the starting age.

I've met many escorts and they were well over 13. No doubt there are child prostitutes in countries like Thailand but its not the case here. You can always find a horror story but that doesn't make everyone on the same par. For most women, it's profitable and satisfying. I know one girl who is just turning 50 and she owns more San Francisco real estate than Larry Ellison does (maybe). She loves her job - she meets all kinds of interesting men and travels all over the world.

You're confusing young crack whores with Escorts and Courtesans. I consider myself very moral and ethical and I love Escorts and what they do for me.



Peter Grimm said:
I'm not having this turn in to a debate about gays. If you want that, turn to about 10,000 other threads here on DP.

People sell their children illegally, people prostitute themselves illegally.

Obviously there is a difference in extremity between taking someone's eyes and taking their self-esteem. That's why I put the price of someone's eyes at a million bucks, while the price of a lay is I guess, according to speckle, from $20 to $500 depending on how much the girl thinks she's worth. However, both are harmful.

I will have to look up the statistics, but since we know prostitutes kill themselves at a rate 40 times higher than the average person, my guess would be that amputees kill themselves at about the same rate. Would have to check though.
Click to expand...
 
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