View Poll Results: Should the sadistic billionaire's offer be legal?

Voters
34. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes.

    17 50.00%
  • No.

    17 50.00%
Page 3 of 23 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 229

Thread: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

  1. #21
    Sage
    Mach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    11,471

    Re: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

    No on children. Conditional on mentally impaired, if it's self impairment or outside their control matters IMO. The issue in all such cases is we pay a price as a society in making it illegal (see prohibition type reactions), in the black market, tax implications (least of the issues but it's real), the general idea that if we do this with most laws everyone is breaking some law at some point, there's blackmail and corruption that can result, etc.

    What we may discover as a society is that if we allow certain freedoms to take their course, we may adjust favorably to them over time. It's definitely a complicated problem because it involves society, pros/cons on both sides, and is really hard to scientifically analyze.

  2. #22
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The anals of history
    Last Seen
    07-25-15 @ 02:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    10,348

    Re: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    My support for the legalization of prostitution is premised on the fact that prostitution is real, immovable, pervasive part of society. Because it is a real, immovable, pervasive part of society, it ought to be legalized so that it can be regulated in order to reduce the damage that it does to prostitutes, their clients and society, at large. Sadistic billionaires who pay people for their eyes are not a real, immovable, pervasive part of society. Therefore, I see no benefit to making the actions you describe legal.
    That's a decent point. A bit defeatist for my taste though. I think, given the problems we know these women go through, we're at least obligated to try to help.

  3. #23
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The anals of history
    Last Seen
    07-25-15 @ 02:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    10,348

    Re: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Mach View Post
    No on children. Conditional on mentally impaired, if it's self impairment or outside their control matters IMO. The issue in all such cases is we pay a price as a society in making it illegal (see prohibition type reactions), in the black market, tax implications (least of the issues but it's real), the general idea that if we do this with most laws everyone is breaking some law at some point, there's blackmail and corruption that can result, etc.

    What we may discover as a society is that if we allow certain freedoms to take their course, we may adjust favorably to them over time. It's definitely a complicated problem because it involves society, pros/cons on both sides, and is really hard to scientifically analyze.
    What would cause such problems to self-correct? It's human nature, for some more than others, to objectify others. Ever see Clockwork Orange?

  4. #24
    Banned
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    The anals of history
    Last Seen
    07-25-15 @ 02:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    10,348

    Re: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

    Quote Originally Posted by DashingAmerican View Post
    No to these two only, considering both of these people are not mentally fit and therefore cannot be held liable to a binding contract.
    But it's fine to take advantage of anyone else purely for sadistic pleasure? Sorry, but that makes me sick.

    This is why I can't support libertarians.

  5. #25
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    07-19-17 @ 03:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    60,458

    Re: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    What liberty do they really have, if they're so desperate for money that they would sell their gift of sight?
    Is it not their right to sell their sight if they see it fit to survive? I would say it is, but I would also say it's extremely stupid and there is better ways to get ahead. I think allowing people more choices even if those choices are poor is a good thing.

  6. #26
    Sage

    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 09:54 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    12,444
    Blog Entries
    2

    Re: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    We know prostitution causes a wide array of psychological problems (to see some of the data, I'd redirect you back to the original thread where I've posted some). It's not simply an incidental relationship - real people are actually getting hurt, even dying, every day as a result.

    In a sense, Johns are like the sadist in my example: they don't care if they are hurting someone else, as long as they get their pleasure out of the experience. However, the pleasure they derive is far outweighed by the pain derived by the victim (the prostitute).
    You're making the same mistake the drug warriors make, blaming problems caused by an acts prohibition on the act itself.

    Getting high doesn't arm drug cartels, making drugs illegal and therefore extremely profitable does.

    Much of what you present as proof that prostitution causes problems are actually problems caused by prostitution's PROHIBITION and not the selling of sex itself.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

  7. #27
    Engineer

    RabidAlpaca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    American in Europe
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:42 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Left
    Posts
    14,568

    Re: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    This is in direct response to the "should prostitution be legal" thread, and is intended to make you think. It surprises me how many of you answered "yes" to the question, this in spite of all the data which shows prostitutes suffer from a variety of diseases and psychological disorders - including heightened suicide rates - as a direct result of their profession.

    Therefore, you are saying it's OK to pay someone to harm themselves as long as both parties are consenting. Fine, but how far are you willing to take this logic?

    Here is a hypothetical question, answer it "yes" or "no."



    Suppose a sadistic billionaire went around offering poor people a million dollars each to have their eyes removed. The procedure would be carried out by a licensed plastic surgeon, under sedation, in a certified medical facility. Should that be legal? Both parties are consenting.

    What if the sadistic billionaire offered one of your parents, or your adult children, and they accepted? Should that be legal?

    What if the sadistic billionaire offered someone high on drugs, or a heavily addicted drug addict? What if they offered the elderly, or mentally impaired?

    Is it simply a case of two consenting adults involved in a financial transaction, or is there more to it? Is the sadistic billionaire taking advantage of the poor person's problems?
    I think everything you said should be legal, but regulated. In the case you offered, it would definitely be necessary for an official to make sure the person is doing it of their own free will.

    And by the way, none of this makes any sense in relation to prostitution. That's not necessarily "harm", that's opening yourself to possible harm. Having your eyes removed a direct harm.

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    But it's fine to take advantage of anyone else purely for sadistic pleasure? Sorry, but that makes me sick.

    This is why I can't support libertarians.
    You can't support libertarians because we believe in a separation of church and state and you want christianity ruling the government.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

  8. #28
    Guru
    Smeagol's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Last Seen
    02-19-17 @ 11:35 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    4,147

    Re: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    This is in direct response to the "should prostitution be legal" thread, and is intended to make you think. It surprises me how many of you answered "yes" to the question, this in spite of all the data which shows prostitutes suffer from a variety of diseases and psychological disorders - including heightened suicide rates - as a direct result of their profession.

    Therefore, you are saying it's OK to pay someone to harm themselves as long as both parties are consenting. Fine, but how far are you willing to take this logic?

    Here is a hypothetical question, answer it "yes" or "no."



    Suppose a sadistic billionaire went around offering poor people a million dollars each to have their eyes removed. The procedure would be carried out by a licensed plastic surgeon, under sedation, in a certified medical facility. Should that be legal? Both parties are consenting.

    What if the sadistic billionaire offered one of your parents, or your adult children, and they accepted? Should that be legal?

    What if the sadistic billionaire offered someone high on drugs, or a heavily addicted drug addict? What if they offered the elderly, or mentally impaired?

    Is it simply a case of two consenting adults involved in a financial transaction, or is there more to it? Is the sadistic billionaire taking advantage of the poor person's problems?
    I imagine many if not most young ladies go into prostitution out of desperation, a choice they would not willingly make under optimal life circumstances. A caring person would try to offer selfless help to ladies facing such desperation not to wreck their lives by turning to selling their bodies, or supporting charities that offer such help. Rescue Project | Dream Center

    Selfish SOBs will say, sure I'll help you out. Tough times can be challenging. All you have to do is let me....
    Having opinions all over the map is a good sign of a person capable of autonomous thinking. Felix -2011

  9. #29
    Sage
    Mach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:13 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Liberal
    Posts
    11,471

    Re: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    What would cause such problems to self-correct? It's human nature, for some more than others, to objectify others. Ever see Clockwork Orange?
    Because not solving problems is absurd?

    How would you know unless you tried? Every parent worries about self-correction in their children, if they are armed with enough good stuff, and with a little luck, they grow from the experience. If you baby them forever, you stunt their development and ultimately you ensure they can never really learn how to make such choices responsibly. If your child got in a car accident irresponsibly the first week they have a car, do you take the car forever?

    A big element of trust in there. If you never trust them to succeed on their own, why would they ever trust themselves? How could they ever know if they can be trusted? You cheat them of all such things.

  10. #30
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Last Seen
    11-17-17 @ 12:48 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,610

    Re: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    That's a decent point. A bit defeatist for my taste though. I think, given the problems we know these women go through, we're at least obligated to try to help.
    Legalization is helping. When you legalize prostitution, you take away the power of exploitative pimps whose control requires prostitution to be underground. You enable a more safe and fair environment for the women and men who do become prostitutes.

Page 3 of 23 FirstFirst 1234513 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •