View Poll Results: Should the sadistic billionaire's offer be legal?

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  • Yes.

    17 50.00%
  • No.

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Thread: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

  1. #211
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    Re: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    After sifting through the last 5 pages of absolute garbage replies that don't merit so much as a response, I have to say your answer is refreshingly lucid and thought-inspiring.

    You are right, sex in itself is not harmful, whereas removing one's eyes is quite harmful. Indeed, sex can be quite beautiful. On the other hand, it can be quite horrible (rape, incest, for example). Therefore, since sex can be either a good thing or a bad thing, consider whether these women are having sex that is enjoyable to them or horrible to them.

    Consider in your own mind, not abstractly but as a woman... I'm sure you would never think of having sex with a series of random, nasty old men for $500. You would most likely feel ashamed of yourself afterwards, feel dirty, and you would question what kind of person you are and your own self-worth.

    The damage done by prostitution is to the self-esteem of these women, which, while not being as graphic as gouging one's eyes out, is still quite real damage.
    Trying to bring rape/incest into this is like trying to bring up having a person take your eye. You aren't voluntarily doing that action. And it isn't the action itself that is doing the harm, but rather the way the action is being done. And incest can be consensual. Incest is wrong when there is undue influence in the relationship.

    I can't say what I would or wouldn't do had circumstances in my life been different. I can easily see that many women would have no issue becoming a prostitute, selling their bodies to old men because they liked the money and had no issue having sex for it. Why else would beautiful young women marry really old rich guys? (Yes, I realize this is a stereotype, but it is one for a reason.) This doesn't really affect their self-esteem because they see no issue with having sex. It is just sex, just a job to them.

    You cannot prove that every prostitute, of every kind, has their self-esteem damaged because of their job. I can prove that every single person who cuts out their perfectly healthy eye will have their vision/body permanently damaged by that act. Personally, I'm willing to bet that "paid escorts" have no issues with self-esteem or what they are doing. They probably look at it as a job that pays a lot of money.
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  2. #212
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    Re: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    After sifting through the last 5 pages of absolute garbage replies that don't merit so much as a response, I have to say...Consider in your own mind, not abstractly but as a woman... I'm sure you would never think of having sex with a series of random, nasty old men for $500. You would most likely feel ashamed of yourself afterwards, feel dirty, and you would question what kind of person you are and your own self-worth.

    The damage done by prostitution is to the self-esteem of these women, which, while not being as graphic as gouging one's eyes out, is still quite real damage.
    It is hardly surprising that you found most of the responses "absolute garbage," since as the author of this poll who clearly stated from the beginning that you find the mere practice of prostitution harmful, you were hoping more people would share your belief.

    Again, you are arguing from a position of pure emotion rather than fact. True, where prostitution is illegal many horrors abound. That's because the participants have no legal recourse or protections. Yet you overlook the fact that in virtually every western nation (I do not include third world nations because they do not typically have systems of law and justice that attempt to support either Law or Justice), including our own (Reno, NV) prostitutes are ALL volunteers, protected by law and required to maintain standards of health and safety.

    You also overlook the fact that making it illegal does more harm than your perceived “good.” Let’s start with the fact that regardless of legality there is a “demand” for these services which has existed in practically all eras of civilized human development. That whenever there is a “demand” for something, there will always be “entrepreneurs” willing and able to meet such demands, illegal or not.

    It is where it is illegal that trouble starts, because victims of human trafficking can be compelled either by fear or self-delusion to serve the needs of strangers for the profit of their owners. There you find runaway kids seduced by pimps and convinced by “love” they need to have sex for profit with strangers. There you find women and men from foreign lands who are seeking a better life ensnared into sex slavery by false offers of transport to jobs and new homes. There you find children kidnapped and kept in warehouses, whorehouses, even tents and forced to perform acts with pedophiles.

    Make it legal and all that is alleviated, giving legal outlets to “johns” and willing participants in the trade, while allowing police agencies to focus on human traffickers and pedophile sex rings.

    Next, as for your blanket statement that no woman “would (ever) think of having sex with a series of random, nasty old men for $500,” you’d apparently be surprised at how wrong you are. Just look at public examples (like the Xaviera Hollander (Happy Hooker), Kristen DiAngelo (American Courtesans), or Anna Gristina (The Manhattan Madam)). Women can and do choose to voluntarily participate knowing the job requires dealing with customers who probably have trouble finding sexual partners the normal way.

    In any case, you set up a poll and failed to achieve your desired results. Now you want to sit back and pontificate on “morality,” when all you are actually doing is trying to foist your own brand of morality on everyone else.

    Regardless, your poll “issue” is a false dilemma, because your basic premises are false. Sorry if you consider this reply more “garbage” because it disagrees with your moral assumptions, but so be it.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 06-23-13 at 01:42 AM.

  3. #213
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    Re: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    It is hardly surprising that you found most of the responses "absolute garbage," since as the author of this poll who clearly stated from the beginning that you find the mere practice of prostitution harmful, you were hoping more people would share your belief.

    Again, you are arguing from a position of pure emotion rather than fact. True, where prostitution is illegal many horrors abound. That's because the participants have no legal recourse or protections. Yet you overlook the fact that in virtually every western nation (I do not include third world nations because they do not typically have systems of law and justice that attempt to support either Law or Justice), including our own (Reno, NV) prostitutes are ALL volunteers, protected by law and required to maintain standards of health and safety.

    You also overlook the fact that making it illegal does more harm than your perceived “good.” Let’s start with the fact that regardless of legality there is a “demand” for these services which has existed in practically all eras of civilized human development. That whenever there is a “demand” for something, there will always be “entrepreneurs” willing and able to meet such demands, illegal or not.

    It is where it is illegal that trouble starts, because victims of human trafficking can be compelled either by fear or self-delusion to serve the needs of strangers for the profit of their owners. There you find runaway kids seduced by pimps and convinced by “love” they need to have sex for profit with strangers. There you find women and men from foreign lands who are seeking a better life ensnared into sex slavery by false offers of transport to jobs and new homes. There you find children kidnapped and kept in warehouses, whorehouses, even tents and forced to perform acts with pedophiles.

    Make it legal and all that is alleviated, giving legal outlets to “johns” and willing participants in the trade, while allowing police agencies to focus on human traffickers and pedophile sex rings.

    Next, as for your blanket statement that no woman “would (ever) think of having sex with a series of random, nasty old men for $500,” you’d apparently be surprised at how wrong you are. Just look at public examples (like the Xaviera Hollander (Happy Hooker), Kristen DiAngelo (American Courtesans), or Anna Gristina (The Manhattan Madam)). Women can and do choose to voluntarily participate knowing the job requires dealing with customers who probably have trouble finding sexual partners the normal way.

    In any case, you set up a poll and failed to achieve your desired results. Now you want to sit back and pontificate on “morality,” when all you are actually doing is trying to foist your own brand of morality on everyone else.

    Regardless, your poll “issue” is a false dilemma, because your basic premises are false. Sorry if you consider this reply more “garbage” because it disagrees with your moral assumptions, but so be it.
    I stopped reading after the first sentence. Check the poll results. .

  4. #214
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    Re: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Trying to bring rape/incest into this is like trying to bring up having a person take your eye. You aren't voluntarily doing that action. And it isn't the action itself that is doing the harm, but rather the way the action is being done. And incest can be consensual. Incest is wrong when there is undue influence in the relationship.

    I can't say what I would or wouldn't do had circumstances in my life been different. I can easily see that many women would have no issue becoming a prostitute, selling their bodies to old men because they liked the money and had no issue having sex for it. Why else would beautiful young women marry really old rich guys? (Yes, I realize this is a stereotype, but it is one for a reason.) This doesn't really affect their self-esteem because they see no issue with having sex. It is just sex, just a job to them.

    You cannot prove that every prostitute, of every kind, has their self-esteem damaged because of their job. I can prove that every single person who cuts out their perfectly healthy eye will have their vision/body permanently damaged by that act. Personally, I'm willing to bet that "paid escorts" have no issues with self-esteem or what they are doing. They probably look at it as a job that pays a lot of money.
    Incest is wrong, period.

    This is exactly why I dismissed so many of the previous posts, and why I'm dismissing yours now. I'm not wasting one second of my life debating with someone who would for one minute apologize for incest.

    Some of you really worry me.

  5. #215
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    Re: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Incest is wrong, period.

    This is exactly why I dismissed so many of the previous posts, and why I'm dismissing yours now. I'm not wasting one second of my life debating with someone who would for one minute apologize for incest.

    Some of you really worry me.
    Okay, that is your opinion. Incest however does not cause harm as you seem to believe in every case. In fact, what is considered incest can't even be agreed upon. Some places include only immediate family, others include relations as far out as 4th or further cousins, and still others did or do include inlaws.

    But you still have the issue that you cannot prove that every single instance of incest causes harm, while I can still prove that every single instance of a person cutting out a perfectly healthy eye or both will cause permanent, physical harm and even impairment.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  6. #216
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    Re: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Okay, that is your opinion. Incest however does not cause harm as you seem to believe in every case. In fact, what is considered incest can't even be agreed upon. Some places include only immediate family, others include relations as far out as 4th or further cousins, and still others did or do include inlaws.

    But you still have the issue that you cannot prove that every single instance of incest causes harm, while I can still prove that every single instance of a person cutting out a perfectly healthy eye or both will cause permanent, physical harm and even impairment.
    It's not my opinion, it's society's. Disgust for incest is a social norm. Knowing this is part of being properly socialized.

  7. #217
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    Re: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    It's not my opinion, it's society's. Disgust for incest is a social norm. Knowing this is part of being properly socialized.
    In what era?

    Today we object because we know it ****s up the gene pool.

  8. #218
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    Re: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I stopped reading after the first sentence. Check the poll results. .
    I was writing based upon the original numbers when I posted my first reply. I stand corrected by the current poll numbers only to the extent that ALL parties, both yea and nay, who participated fell for the false dilemma you created with this poll.

    Your original premise is essentially "all prostitution is harmful." You follow that up with a second premise "therefore legal prostitution is harmful." Finally you create your final assumption "if prostitution causes some form of harm then I can compare it to actual physical harm" in order to show how bad supporting legalized prostitution is.

    Thus you equate the short-term loan of the use of ones body to permanent physical damages thereby creating a false dilemma with your poll example of the "sadistic billionaire paying to remove an eye."

    Of course one should not sell parts of ones body to sate the sadistic pleasure of anyone; it is a physically destructive act. But to equate that with loaning ones body for someone else's temporary pleasure while maintaining control over it's ultimate use? No comparison at all.

    Now since the remainder of my prior post proved how wrong your basic premise is, I can understand how you would be bored by it. You've made up your mind and that is perfectly okay.

  9. #219
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    Re: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I stopped reading after the first sentence. Check the poll results. .
    I wonder how many who voted "No" did so because they don't believe in what you propose but have zero issues with prostitution. Just looking at the names compared to the comments in this and other threads I know a good part of them voted "No" for that reason - not because they're saying "No" to prostitution as you would like to assume.
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  10. #220
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    Re: Moral question (don't click if you're squeamish)...

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    I stopped reading after the first sentence. Check the poll results. .
    You can't call this poll a win for anti-prostitution, as it isn't even remotely similar.

    Here's a poll where the question was directly phrased: Should prostitution be legal?

    85% said yes.

    The biggest difference between these two scenarios is in the billionaire scenario, the person paid is being directly harmed, and is guaranteed 100% to be harmed. Prostitution is opening yourself up to the CHANCE of being harmed. I open myself up to the chance of being harmed every day when I leave my house. I've weighed the pros and cons and have decided it's worth it. That's for everyone to decide themselves.

    As I said before though, I think such a situation would be extremely rare, but if it did happen, someone should investigate to make sure that person is of sound mind and isn't being coerced. If he's doing it of his own free will, that's his decision, not yours.
    Quote Originally Posted by LowDown View Post
    I've got to say that it is shadenfreudalicious to see the rich and famous fucquewads on the coast suffering from the fires.

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