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Teach Children Tradition Gender Roles?

Should traditional gender and marriage roles be taught in school?

  • Total voters
    51
Josie said:
I never said I was against women changing tires. I think it's very smart to know how to change a tire. I just choose not to do it myself.

You said it's important for the woman's safety to know how to change a tire. Don't you think it's just as important (even more, really) for a woman's safety to know how to defend herself against someone who might want to harm her? Women shouldn't be fragile or helpless, right?
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thanks for clarifying ... btw, a lot guys prefer not to change their tires either, which is why God created AAA ...
 
Josie said:
I never said I was against women changing tires. I think it's very smart to know how to change a tire. I just choose not to do it myself.

You said it's important for the woman's safety to know how to change a tire. Don't you think it's just as important (even more, really) for a woman's safety to know how to defend herself against someone who might want to harm her? Women shouldn't be fragile or helpless, right?
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when you advise your friends to get a gun, tell them to consider this ... (an excerpt from Guns In Your Home: A Statistical Accident Waiting To Happen « CBS Chicago)

Statistics versus emotions

When stories hit the press about people victoriously defending themselves with firearms, gun sales go up. Emotion and the desire to protect your own are pretty powerful motivations. However, statistics about gun-related deaths should not be ignored. Multiple groups, like the American Academy of Pediatrics, urge Americans not to keep guns in their homes because of overwhelming evidence that homes with guns are more likely to also be homes with suicides, murders and gun-related accidents. Bad guys do get stopped with guns, but statistically, in a country where more than one third of households contain a working firearm, far more individuals, especially children, are accidentally shot. In addition to the number of children wounded or killed by firearms, women also disproportionately find themselves at the wrong end of a gun in their own homes, with a current or former romantic partner typically pulling the trigger.

According to a report filed by the Washington State Department of Social Health Services, a child or teen is killed once every seven and a half hours with a gun, either by accident or by suicide. In 72 percent of these cases, the firearm used was housed in the victim’s own residence. Many of these weapons were locked away in a secure place, yet 48 percent of those who own guns do not equip them with child safety and trigger locks.


Hidden guns may be found and used by children often, yet in a third of homes where firearms are present, that type of hide-and-seek discovery is not necessary. A full 30 percent of gun owners keep their weapons at the ready in an unlocked, loaded state. Ironically, in order for a home to be protected against an intruder, guns need to be easily and quickly accessible and it is this very accessibility which makes firearms in the home so deadly.

Gun safety basics

Whether you have guns in your home or not, it is imperative you teach your children what to do if they come across a firearm accidentally. The standard safety steps children should follow are:

Stop what you’re doing.
Do not touch the gun.
Leave the area.
Let a grownup know right away.
It is also important that children be told it is not their responsibility to protect someone who has a gun or to hide this knowledge from their parent or guardian. If you yourself have a gun you no longer wish to keep, you may be able to sell it to an authorized dealer or have it melted down. You can also turn your firearms in to the local authorities, along with any ammunition. If you are in possession of an illegal firearm, there are a number of no-questions-asked gun buy-back programs available in most states. Most importantly, don’t simply throw an unwanted gun away or stow it in an attic or basement where it can be stolen or stumbled upon, years later.

Corey Whelan is a freelance writer in New York. Her work can be found at Examiner.com.©2013 CBS Local Media, a division of CBS Radio Inc. All rights reserved.
 
Actually I can't think of many friends and family of mine who don't already have a gun in their home. I also think it's very important to teach gun safety to children. And by "gun safety" I don't mean "Run away from it, Billy! It's a GUN!!! Scary!!!!" I mean..... learning how to hold one, shoot one, etc.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Hopefully some man will see her changing the tire in the rain as you sit in the car and pull over and help her. Then hopefully she will get in his car and drive away with him leaving you to wonder why she left.
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:lol:

I'm just saying there is things that don't matter and who changes the tire is indeed one of those things. Hell, the vast majority of things fall under that umbrella that take place. I would sooner just do it than even bother caring who does what and when it gets done.

I just don't get why you care so much about changing the tire? It's a job that needs to be done and you're there, so do it. Really though, who cares who changes the tire? Yes, I agree a man should change the tire and even stop and help a woman that is on the side of the road, but I don't see why this is big thing for you. It's not like it really matters.
 
I really think that teachers should have boundaries when it comes to their students. They are NOT their students mommies and daddies, nor should they behave as if they are. They are paid to do a specific job, and that is to teach children things like reading, writing, arithmetic, etc. NOT gender roles, not anything about sex (unless it is in the sex ed curriculum), and other such things.

Even MOST children who come from one-parent households usually have at least one other family member that would be their role model or whatever you want to call it. This whole concept is just completely ridiculous if you ask me.
 
Yes. Traditional roles should be the only roles explained.
 
ChrisL said:
I really think that teachers should have boundaries when it comes to their students. They are NOT their students mommies and daddies, nor should they behave as if they are. They are paid to do a specific job, and that is to teach children things like reading, writing, arithmetic, etc. NOT gender roles, not anything about sex (unless it is in the sex ed curriculum), and other such things.

Even MOST children who come from one-parent households usually have at least one other family member that would be their role model or whatever you want to call it. This whole concept is just completely ridiculous if you ask me.
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Yes, but not really. There is a huge division between teacher and parent, but it becomes more gray in certain aspects, because teachers aren't simply put into one small box. They are expected to be role models too, which includes guidance, but to a limited extent, because there's school counselors that take the brunt of the school's responsibility for that.
 
Fiddytree said:
Yes, but not really. There is a huge division between teacher and parent, but it becomes more gray in certain aspects, because teachers aren't simply put into one small box. They are expected to be role models too, which includes guidance, but to a limited extent, because there's school counselors that take the brunt of the school's responsibility for that.
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Sure, maybe they are a role model for SOME kids, but most kids have at least someone at home, even in single-parent homes, whether that be an older sibling, a grandparent, an uncle, a cousin, or a whole slew of others. I would think teachers probably play the smallest role as a "role model" in most children's lives truthfully.
 
ChrisL said:
Sure, maybe they are a role model for SOME kids, but most kids have at least someone at home, even in single-parent homes, whether that be an older sibling, a grandparent, an uncle, a cousin, or a whole slew of others. I would think teachers probably play the smallest role as a "role model" in most children's lives truthfully.
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What they are accepted as by an individual student is somewhat beside the point. The societal and professional expectation for an instructor goes far above and beyond clocking in and clocking out, and teaching one (or many) academic subject matters.
 
Fiddytree said:
What they are accepted as by an individual student is somewhat beside the point. The societal and professional expectation for an instructor goes far above and beyond clocking in and clocking out, and teaching one (or many) academic subject matters.
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I disagree. I think there need to be boundaries, and pretty strict ones at that. If a teacher suspects there might be abuse or neglect, they should call Social Services. That is the only other expectation I would have from a teacher besides teaching.
 
"Traditional roles" was what era? What year? 1990? 1970? 1950? 1920? 1890? 1790? 1660? Medieval times? The Dark Ages?

What culture? What religion? Etc. Etc.

In short, "teaching children traditional gender and marriage roles" is just another religious rightwing social agenda slogan and nothing more.

What schools need to teach children are education matters - ie education - not how they should and shouldn't live their lives. It wouldn't work anyway.
 
ChrisL said:
I disagree. I think there need to be boundaries, and pretty strict ones at that. If a teacher suspects there might be abuse or neglect, they should call Social Services. That is the only other expectation I would have from a teacher besides teaching.
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I did just say that there are enormous boundaries between a parent and a teacher. Half of my childhood was spent with my parents and other advocates reminding my instructors and administrators on that point. I did, however, also state that an important part of the job description is to be a role model and a limited guiding force for any and all students. It is not limited to academic subject matter.
 
Fiddytree said:
I did just say that there are enormous boundaries between a parent and a teacher. Half of my childhood was spent with my parents and other advocates reminding my instructors and administrators on that point. I did, however, also state that an important part of the job description is to be a role model and a limited guiding force for any and all students. It is not limited to academic subject matter.
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Well what do you suggest that include then? I have to say that I can't remember any one of my teachers doing anything other than teaching school-related lessons. If by role model, you mean to have a clean record or other such things, then yeah I agree with that. But as far as teachers "teaching" gender roles and other such things, no way. That's crossing a line IMO.
 
ChrisL said:
Well what do you suggest that include then? I have to say that I can't remember any one of my teachers doing anything other than teaching school-related lessons. If by role model, you mean to have a clean record or other such things, then yeah I agree with that. But as far as teachers "teaching" gender roles and other such things, no way. That's crossing a line IMO.
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Well, teaching appropriate behavior, social etiquette, and so forth. Yes, this also involves having a clean record, as if we are to be role models, it is assumed that we ought to at least fairly decently hold up to the standard. In the past, "traditional gender roles" were mixed in with the social etiquette and lesson planning. Once it became improper to implant those specific roles to the sexes, the sort that remained was social. A change in gender roles is still taught by being gender-neutral or meritocracy for both sexes. That's a gender role right there.

We aren't supposed to push ideas forward that seriously challenge the status-quo of acceptability by society or practice, but we do push forward ideas that are outside the scope of academic subject.
 
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Fiddytree said:
Well, teaching appropriate behavior, social etiquette, and so forth. Yes, this also involves having a clean record, as if we are to be role models, it is assumed that we ought to at least fairly decently hold up to the standard. In the past, "traditional gender roles" were mixed in with the social etiquette and lesson planning. Once it became improper to implant those specific roles to the sexes, the sort that remained was social. A change in gender roles is still taught by being gender-neutral or meritocracy for both sexes. That's a gender role right there.
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Why do you think this needs to be "taught" anyway? I happen to think these are things that kids pick up on naturally, and it's certainly not the school's or the teacher's place to assume "teaching" something like this to someone else's child/children. Inappropriate, regardless of what they did in the old days.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Women can't change tires. They can get a spare out and stand there looking at in until some man stops and changes it for her though.:lol:
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Thank God I didn't grow up where you live.
 
ChrisL said:
Why do you think this needs to be "taught" anyway? I happen to think these are things that kids pick up on naturally, and it's certainly not the school's or the teacher's place to assume "teaching" something like this to someone else's child/children. Inappropriate, regardless of what they did in the old days.
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Well, it's not "naturally" gathered, no. I just spent the last 10 hours reading a book published 31 years ago on the necessities of instructing many of these very basic concepts, and making sure they are ready for adulthood. A very big thing now is incorporating life skills and social skills into the classroom, making it a part of the classroom environment so individuals can hack it on the outside. This started becoming important for students with disabilities, and now it's slowly becoming more important for regular education students.

I don't see why it's so shocking. Society places these demands on instructors, it becomes institutionalized through the practice, and instructors are answering the call.
 
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Fiddytree said:
Well, it's not "naturally" gathered, no. I just spent the last 10 hours reading a book published 31 years ago on the necessities of instructing many of these very basic concepts, and making sure they are ready for adulthood. A very big thing now is incorporating life skills and social skills into the classroom, making it a part of the classroom environment so individuals can hack it on the outside. This started becoming important for students with disabilities, and no it's slowly becoming more important for regular education students.

I don't see why it's so shocking. Society places these demands on instructors, it becomes institutionalized through the practice, and instructors are answering the call.
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Well, from my own personal experiences, I have to disagree with your assessment. And I never said it was "shocking." I said it's inappropriate and that teachers need to know their places when it comes to other people's children. Unless you're referring to one of those schools that raise rich people's kids for them, but I'm talking about public school teachers.
 
Removable Mind said:
There is a true evolution in what a "traditional family" represents. I know some people are going to hate me using the word "evolution"...rather than "change", but take a minute to look up the word "evolution".

I happen to know several "Mr. Moms" who aren't employed outside the home. Working in the home is a tough job. Anybody who has ever truly been responsible for a household knows exactly what I'm talking about.

Regardless of what a nuclear family is to each individual, the bottom like is that if there are children...then they are exposed to a parent or parents who do role model and teach them right from wrong, world views, religions, current events, family traditions no matter where they originated within a family. Parents or a parent that relinquishes teaching their children all of the aforementioned...is setting that kid up for failure. Kids need guided and affirmed, or validated if you will.

We live in a beautiful world...but it is a dangerous world. The best thing a parent can do for a kid is to let them know that he or she is safe...and that they'll do their best to make sure that their NEEDS are met...and that they will be there for them in the good, bad, and ugliest of times. Teachers at schools simply can't do that for a kid.
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Well said.
 
ChrisL said:
Well, from my own personal experiences, I have to disagree with your assessment. And I never said it was "shocking." I said it's inappropriate and that teachers need to know their places when it comes to other people's children. Unless you're referring to one of those schools that raise rich people's kids for them, but I'm talking about public school teachers.
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Actually, I am referring to the public school and its teachers.
 
sawyerloggingon said:
Gender roles don't change from one generation to the next. When you get a flat tire in the pouring rain dad fixes it not mom.
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I'm a mom and I've fixed mechanical things, installed a ceiling fan, took apart and fixed my leaky sunroof in my last car, mow the lawn and do plenty of other "dad" things. That was a silly thing to say.
 
Fiddytree said:
Actually, I am referring to the public school and its teachers.
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Why do you want public school teachers to teach gender roles, and what exactly would that even entail? Honestly, speaking as a parent, I would be pissed about it. I don't want the teachers having any kind of relationship with my child other than school lesson associated. I would feel that they were overstepping their boundaries with me as well as with my child.
 
I did not say I entirely want gender roles to be taught, I mostly said they are a consequence per the requirements placed on instructors, and a role instructors themselves largely embrace. There are limitations on their reach, the division between parent and teacher are large, but social guidance can end up having the instructor include gender assumptions (whether neutral, "traditional," or negotiated) along with all sort of additional social instruction.
 
Fiddytree said:
I did not say I entirely want gender roles to be taught, I mostly said they are a consequence per the requirements placed on instructors, and a role instructors themselves largely embrace. There are limitations on their reach, the division between parent and teacher are large, but social guidance can end up having the instructor include gender assumptions (whether neutral, "traditional," or negotiated) along with all sort of additional social instruction.
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Well, that is what the thread is about, teaching "traditional" gender roles and "marriage" roles in school. See thread title. ;)

I think only rarely is a teacher THAT influential on a student anyway. The exception might be SOME very young students who might be missing something at home.

An example of what you mean by "gender assumptions" and how an instructor would include that in his or her daily lessons would be nice. I'm really not sure if you mean inadvertent influence.
 
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