• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Are you proud to be American/citizen of your country?

Would you openly say you are proud to be American/nationality of your country?


  • Total voters
    96
And how long did the Republicans control Congress and the Presidency during Hitler's reign?

Hitler declared war on us, the republicans were hell bent on staying out of 'European problems' because 18th century men said so.

And for the same reasons you can't shoot everyone you think MIGHT rape, murder, or remove the factory tag from mattresses ya can't 'take out' leaders we don't agree with, like in Chile '73.
 
We chose to overthrow Hitler, didn't we? Let's say we decided to take Hitler out in 1934, would that have been unjustified as well?

This is a perfect example of the differences between the present and hindsight. Post-1945 it's easy to say we should have taken out Hitler, but at the time in 1934 we had no inkling what was going to happen, and hence to reason.
 
And how long did the Republicans control Congress and the Presidency during Hitler's reign?

First your claim was we chose to overthrow Hitler when in fact Hitler declared war on us so I guess how the Republicans blocked/fought damn near every attempt lean help toward England- read up on the isolationists in the US Senate of that time period.

In case you really don't know how the Senate works, a small but rebellious minority can block any vote through a series maneuvers like filibuster, and 2/3rds vote. Please educate yourself on that period before further comments.

Hitler declared war on us

The America first Committee

Senators like La Foyette, Nye, Vandenburg, Borah, Johnson, Holt sr, and Bilbo. leader of the House Republicans Joe Martin jr, member Janet Rankin(only no vote to enter WWII with Japan). Industrialists like Ford and Wood. Lindbergh, William Randolph Hearst, Col. McCormick and Father Couglin. Former President Herbert Hoover, and senator Taft who ran for President in 1940. Joe Kennedy, Gen Wood.

A wide bunch who were against intervention for a wide variety of reasons from hatred of the English through hatred of Jews to hatred of FDR. Love of Germany and the German philosophy of superiority. Sparta on the Danube.

The republicans were stone faced Isolationists and fought very hard to block war preparations prior to Dec 7th.

The Senate isn't like the House where majority rules most of the time and the minority party can be a very effective road block to legislation.
 
In Germany, for understandable reasons, many people are reluctant to say they're "proud to be German".

How about you? Are you proud to be American/British/[insert nationality here]? Or rather, would you openly word it this way?

I love America, it's the best. I'm not a fan of the government and the path it has taken. But the Republic itself is a fantastic ideal to uphold and preserve.
 
In Germany, for understandable reasons, many people are reluctant to say they're "proud to be German".

How about you? Are you proud to be American/British/[insert nationality here]? Or rather, would you openly word it this way?

No I wouldn't. I'm happy to be an American. It's a pretty good deal all around (though certainly not perfect). However, I had nothing to do with being born an American, so being proud of that fact seems faintly ridiculous.
 
In Germany, for understandable reasons, many people are reluctant to say they're "proud to be German".

How about you? Are you proud to be American/British/[insert nationality here]? Or rather, would you openly word it this way?

Yeesh. "For understandable reasons..."?
Tribalism is one of two or three hurdles we need to overcome before another evolutionary step can be taken. Anyone who's proud of the accident of their birth should try to have an accomplishment.
 
Yes, I am American and very proud to be American, and I will gladly tell that to everybody, but I will also point out the glaring flaws that are causing our magnificent country to stall in the water too.
 
Yes, I am American and very proud to be American, and I will gladly tell that to everybody, but I will also point out the glaring flaws that are causing our magnificent country to stall in the water too.

An average American 16-year-old, just for arguments sake, how many times has he recited the Pledge of Allegiance? How about an 8-year-old? Does an 8 year old even know what allegiance is when he/she pledges it?
I think most of us have been programmed to be loyal to our tribe. "I pledge allegiance to the flag..." How silly is that? If you're proud to be an American, does that mean that being an American is better than being an Australian or a Japanese or a Fijian?
This crap, this tribalism, far from being something to be proud of is something we need to leave behind.
 
We chose to overthrow Hitler, didn't we? Let's say we decided to take Hitler out in 1934, would that have been unjustified as well?

you're kidding right? Was Arbenz invading the rest of Latin America and putting people in concentration camps and gassing them? If anything, we were the ones invading other countries in this hemisphere and arming death squads and dictators' armies to murder people.

As far as the second part of your posts go, why don't we become the de facto rulers of the world, simply deciding who governs where? JC, I used to enjoy my conversations with you, despite our ideological differences, but this is a bit too much ...
 
The Enabling Act and the Reichstag Fire Decree. These along with Mein Kampf and all of Hitler's other threats would justify removal.

then you better get started taking out governments left and right JC ... good luck ... I just hope you're pulling our leg ...
 
An average American 16-year-old, just for arguments sake, how many times has he recited the Pledge of Allegiance? How about an 8-year-old? Does an 8 year old even know what allegiance is when he/she pledges it?
I think most of us have been programmed to be loyal to our tribe. "I pledge allegiance to the flag..." How silly is that? If you're proud to be an American, does that mean that being an American is better than being an Australian or a Japanese or a Fijian?
This crap, this tribalism, far from being something to be proud of is something we need to leave behind.

I would come to the aid of my country if she needed it, or, for that matter, my compatriots. While I relatively do not have the wool over my eyes anymore, I still would die, suffer great lengths and face an enemy in greater number than I to protect my beloved homeland. It matters not if people perceive this to be a weakness in me. It matters not if my politicians betray the Constitution of the United States and us as a result, my loyalty, respect and undying love to my country will remain. For you see, politicians can be replaced, easily so, but our country is here to stay and it is the only thing we have going, and it is the best show on this planet bar none.
 
I would come to the aid of my country if she needed it, or, for that matter, my compatriots. While I relatively do not have the wool over my eyes anymore, I still would die, suffer great lengths and face an enemy in greater number than I to protect my beloved homeland. It matters not if people perceive this to be a weakness in me. It matters not if my politicians betray the Constitution of the United States and us as a result, my loyalty, respect and undying love to my country will remain. For you see, politicians can be replaced, easily so, but our country is here to stay and it is the only thing we have going, and it is the best show on this planet bar none.

Well, then, God bless you, Jango. May you live long and may your attitude die when you do.
 
An average American 16-year-old, just for arguments sake, how many times has he recited the Pledge of Allegiance? How about an 8-year-old? Does an 8 year old even know what allegiance is when he/she pledges it?
I think most of us have been programmed to be loyal to our tribe. "I pledge allegiance to the flag..." How silly is that? If you're proud to be an American, does that mean that being an American is better than being an Australian or a Japanese or a Fijian?
This crap, this tribalism, far from being something to be proud of is something we need to leave behind.

What about the 15 and 16 year old American citizens who are told to recite the Mexican pledge of allegiance in an American class room ?
Then they are required after taking the allegiance to Mexico, they have to sing the Mexican National Anthem.




And lets not forget all of those Mexican flags that are displayed in American schools across the American Southwest and especially in California.
kleincollins.jpg
This a high school in Texas.


And in the city of Montebello, California when Latino anchor babies students demanded that their illegal alien parents be awarded amnesty and citizenship for breaking America's laws how did they send their message ?

mexican_flag_american_flag_upsidedown1.jpg
 
There honestly is very little to be proud about living in the United States. We live in a nation where only the wealthy remain wealthy, sit on their wealth and don't work a day in they're life while on the flipside we have over 20 million people on food stamps and unemployment not even looking to stop relying on the government for everything. We have the largest military in the world, but instead of using it for defense we use it to bully our way into things we have no business with. We are the fattest nation in the world, a place where a man and a man or a woman and a woman get different rights/ benefits than a straight couple. We have an overcrowded prison system filled with "criminals" that commit petty offenses. We also turn on the news every day to shootings of children in schools or movie theaters, then bicker over whether or not we should enact common sense measures such as background checks. We become outraged at our government when terrorists hit at home, but we also become outraged when the government takes steps to counter terrorism with court ordered record obtaining. We continue to complain about our government but never think for a second we might be the reason why it is so bad. There is a Congress that couldn't agree on the color of the sky none the less make important decisions regarding our lives. We have the largest debt in the world, yet we have billionaires crying over loose change to them. We have an education system that relies on minimum competency and the building up of students of becoming simply affluent in a subject. A nation where gaining a higher education is the sole way to get a solid career, but yet getting an education puts students tens of thousands in the red. Everything about the United States is backwards, I wish I had a fix, but I don't. The only thing is clear is that being an American is not as a proud thing as it used to be. Let it be clear, I understand we could be much worse and am certainly not complaining about what we have, but it is certainly not the promise land it used to be or was made out to be.
 
So tell me then, what are your views?

I consider pride of country to be little different than pride of race. I acknowledge your resolve to defend your homeland but I consider that to be just a fantasy- it can never happen but it feels good to say and it gets a round of determined nods from all of your tribesmen.
I believe humans are still evolving but our evolution has stalled because we still can't get past the tribal xenophobia thing, that primate series of responses- "See the stranger, fear the stranger, hate the stranger, kill the stranger!" that drives us to wars that look meaningless in retrospect.
I think that if we can't honestly believe that everyone in the world is equal, we should still act as if we do. The Jesuit thing, "Act as if ye had faith and faith shall be given unto you."
 
What about the 15 and 16 year old American citizens who are told to recite the Mexican pledge of allegiance in an American class room ?
Then they are required after taking the allegiance to Mexico, they have to sing the Mexican National Anthem.




And lets not forget all of those Mexican flags that are displayed in American schools across the American Southwest and especially in California.
View attachment 67148960
This a high school in Texas.


And in the city of Montebello, California when Latino anchor babies students demanded that their illegal alien parents be awarded amnesty and citizenship for breaking America's laws how did they send their message ?

View attachment 67148961


It's all brainwashing. If the washed brains are imprinted with what you believe, you approve. Otherwise it's an outrage.
 
I'm proud of my country. I'm a somewhat contradictory liberal nationalist.
 
I'm proud to be an American! We have our sins for sure, who doesn't, but overall has there been a better nation than ours? Our charity alone, I believe, ranks us above any country in history. We've liberated (or helped liberate) countries and set up democracies (Germany and Japan for example...

Until when will we be ignored like this! It's "Germany, Japan, Dardania for example!" Why is it so difficult to be included there?
 
He is an Englishman!
For he himself has said it,
And it's greatly to his credit,
That he is an Englishman!
That he is an Englishman!
For he might have been a Russian,
A French, or Turk, or Prussian,
Or perhaps Itali-an!
Or perhaps Itali-an!
But in spite of all temptations
To belong to other nations,
He remains an Englishman!
He remains an Englishman!
For in spite of all temptations
To belong to other nations,
He remains an Englishman!
He remains an Englishman!

LOL! This sort of thing is appropriate for musical comedy (Gilbert & Sullivan in this case,) but few nationalities have the bare faced arrogance to unashamedly profess pride in the pre-eminence of their particular nation to an international audience. :mrgreen:

I have said this before, but it bears repeating. If I were to say to my friend that mine is the best country in the world - I am clearly saying to him that his country is inferior to mine. And, unless I have intimate knowledge of the workings of every society in the world, not only am I displaying monumental bad manners, but a great deal of ignorance as well. And for how long thereafter will he remain my friend?

Pride is a very different animal from affection. There are few of us who do not have affection for the people, the environment, and the cultural practices, we experienced while growing up in a particular society. When we are very young, these things are taken as a God-given standard by which all other environments are to be judged. But as we grow up we realise the world is not a monotone - there are other colours and there are shades of grey. So the mature person retains the affection for the familiar things of his youth, but he realises that just because these are his experiences, it does not follow that they are ipso facto 'right', or 'the best'. Other experiences and other environments are as likely to have equal claim.

So, while I am sure that I would not hesitate to take up arms to defend 'my country', what I am really saying is that I would do so in order to defend the people for whom I care. Otherwise, pride in the land of one's birth is merely primitive tribalism.
 
It depends on what I'm observing at the time. For example, the answer is no and I feel lost in a sea of idiots when I see how many people are on social media calling Snowden a hero. Unfortunately, I have to say it's no more often than yes.
 
Back
Top Bottom