View Poll Results: HOW MANY IRAQIS DIED?

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  • 1,000-5,000

    2 3.92%
  • 5,000-50,000

    2 3.92%
  • 50,000-100,000

    12 23.53%
  • 100,000-1,000,000+

    35 68.63%
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Thread: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

  1. #591
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    Re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    But they didn't have any leadership in the Arab Spring either. This is why the Muslim Brotherhood won so many seats in Egypt. They were the only organization that was organized. We are talking about a civilization that has no real leadership other than religious men and the few radicals/reformers that defied dictators. They have no experience politically to maneuver from outside a dictator's watch so they will stumble. Frankly I don't care if they fail as long as they come to the realization that they are responsible for their own failures and leave us alone. They wanted democracy, now they got it. Now they can prove to the world one way or another. In the end, I live in Colorado. My civilization is successful.
    Doesn't that mean the Muslim brotherhood had the leadership to be organized? We didn't organize them. Leadership has to come from within and from the outside. If they can't do that, they will eventually fall.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    It's the kind of thing that's people towards radicalism. There is not a set number of radicals. Events play a role creating them.
    Middle Eastern studies show the number of radicals to be anywhere between 1% and 20% depending on the study. It is an impossible number to accurately figure out for obvious reasons. That's anywhere between 12 million and 240 million radicals. They are the sea in which the extremists/terrorists swim.


    Sure events play a role, but think about it. What event here in America would set you on a path to murder women and children of another tribe? One would have to exist in an environment of great frustration and oppression to so easily pick up a gun and murder or to strap on a bomb and commit suicide for a deity. The lack of education and justice would have to be great to cause you to simply murder people for the sake of murder in the name of whatever. The removal of a dictator is all it took to call thousands of Muslims from their homes in order to participate in the murder orgy. And they weren't targeting Americans. Only the brave did that. The cowards merely targeted other Muslims. This is an issue that Muslims have created, not Americans.
    Last edited by MSgt; 06-24-13 at 02:21 AM.

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    Re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Doesn't that mean the Muslim brotherhood had the leadership to be organized? We didn't organize them. Leadership has to come from within and from the outside. If they can't do that, they will eventually fall.
    Or leaders will develop along the way as they are doing now. Others in Egypt got elected to seats as well. But it doesn't matter. The leaders will be tribal minded and it is this that has to be overcome. I don't think they will be highly successful without addressing their bad borders and what constitutes their nations as we see them today.

    I'm out. People kind of ruined the thread.

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    Re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Middle Eastern studies show the number of radicals to be anywhere between 1% and 20% depending on the study. It is an impossible number to accurately figure out for obvious reasons. That's anywhere between 12 million and 240 million radicals. They are sea by which the extremists/terrorists swim.


    Sure events play a role, but think about it. What event here in America would set you on a path to murder women and children of another tribe? One would have to exist in an environment of great frustration and oppression to so easily pick up a gun and murder or to strap on a bomb and commit suicide for a deity. The lack of education and justice would have to be great to cause you to simply murder people for the sake of murder in the name of whatever. The removal of a dictator is all it took call thousands of Muslims from their homes to seek people of another tribe to murder. This is an issue that Muslims have created, not Americans.
    Don't you remember the civil war? How about the sixties? Hell, some today are trying suggest we should have armed conflict, and we have democracy.

    And it was removal of dictator. It was foreigners invading that worked them. It would work us up to if someone invaded Canada.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Or leaders will develop along the way as they are doing now. Others in Egypt got elected to seats as well. But it doesn't matter. The leaders will be tribal minded and it is this that has to be overcome. I don't think they will be highly successful without addressing their bad borders and what constitutes their nations as we see them today.

    I'm out. People kind of ruined the thread.
    Always enjoy our conversations, but they have to over come and not us. Be well.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    I have no idea. Are you speaking about a cumulative total including both conflicts, plus the "surge," and our current winding down withdrawal period now? No matter, I'd still have absolutely no idea.
    Last edited by Captain Adverse; 06-24-13 at 03:29 AM.

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    Re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Adverse View Post
    I have no idea. Are you speaking about a cumulative total including both conflicts, plus the "surge," and our current winding down withdrawal period now? No matter, I'd still have absolutely no idea.
    Likely the least controversial count:


    113,185 – 123,900

    Iraq Body Count

    But the are other estimates:

    Iraqi Civilian Count

    We maintain a daily count based on news reports. It is not intended to be complete. There is no agency that keeps track of accurate numbers of Iraqis killed. JustForeignPolicy maintains a running estimate based on the Lancet study with the rate of increase derived from the Iraq Body Count.

    Casualties in Iraq - Antiwar.com


    What we can be sure of is that a lot have died, and more displaced.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Something else to consider:

    There has been an underlying anti-occupation / anti-government conflict throughout the period, identifiable both by the weapons it uses and its targets, with civilians caught either in the crossfire or targeted for their connection to the government. While deaths generally attributed to sectarian conflict have dropped 10-fold since their height during 2006–2008, deaths linked to anti-government actors have remained roughly steady at around 1,000—3,000 per year throughout, in recent years accounting for around a quarter of deaths (many of these being police).

    This anti-government conflict forms a significant part of the violence now entrenched in Iraq, which has shown no diminution in recent years. While military forces were able to bring war to Iraq, it has not departed with them.

    The War in Iraq: 10 years and counting :: Iraq Body Count

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Middle Eastern studies show the number of radicals to be anywhere between 1% and 20% depending on the study. It is an impossible number to accurately figure out for obvious reasons. That's anywhere between 12 million and 240 million radicals. They are the sea in which the extremists/terrorists swim.


    Sure events play a role, but think about it. What event here in America would set you on a path to murder women and children of another tribe? One would have to exist in an environment of great frustration and oppression to so easily pick up a gun and murder or to strap on a bomb and commit suicide for a deity. The lack of education and justice would have to be great to cause you to simply murder people for the sake of murder in the name of whatever. The removal of a dictator is all it took to call thousands of Muslims from their homes in order to participate in the murder orgy. And they weren't targeting Americans. Only the brave did that. The cowards merely targeted other Muslims. This is an issue that Muslims have created, not Americans.
    Good thing the government is buying up all that ammunition, sounds like we will need even more of it in the future before we see an end to this.
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

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