View Poll Results: HOW MANY IRAQIS DIED?

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  • 1,000-5,000

    2 3.92%
  • 5,000-50,000

    2 3.92%
  • 50,000-100,000

    12 23.53%
  • 100,000-1,000,000+

    35 68.63%
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Thread: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

  1. #571
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    Re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Moderates by in large were not in favor of our actions in Iraq. Iraq slowed it down, and there are radicals making hay in this as well. There is no certainty any of these places will turn out better. I think you're misreading what is happening.
    Could be, but I doubt it. There is certainty that all of them will turn out better, because the laws of human nature dictate that the Middle East can do what humans in every other single region has done. There is no reason to assume that Democracy can and does work for virtually every single culture on Earth, but it simply cannot work for Muslims in the Middle East. It's this fear of instability that kept the Middle East imprisoned under dictators. The same fear locked down Iraq in 1991. And it is the same fear Republicans spew today in regards to the Arab Spring under Obama. Praise instability. Let them rise up. Let them declare their loyalties to tribe. Let them slaughter. Let them reshape their states. Let them do exactly what the rest of the world was allowed to do.

    Moderates were not in favor of war with Iraq. That had no consequence. What they watched were Iraqi votes after. Complaining about the carnage as they watched Muslims slaughter Muslims is a culture embarrassment. The Shia rose up on their own before at our bequest. They were slaughtered. Therefore, with or without us in Iraq, those local tribes have murder on the brain. hat's what happens when you spend generations being oppressed by another. It comes out in the end.

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  2. #572
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    Re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    And I think you miss the point in that you continue on in this thread about a war that's been over for quite a while, complaining about a president who hasn't been the president for about 5 years now, while you and others have had virtually nothing to say about Syria which is a CURRENT issue and is quite a conundrum for us.
    It's not "DebateCurrentPolitics.com"

    We demonize the past when the future (of a political position) dries up.

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    Re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Oh. I thought you meant that it helped them. No. It didn't hurt them. But if you look at Al-Queda as merely a symptom of a larger disease then Iraq is a piece of the pie as is Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Tunisia, Libya, Bahrain, Yemen, etc. Say Al-Queda didn't do 9/11. There are hundreds of organizations like this that only need financial backing. We can deal with them as they show threat or we can deal with the failing civilization that breeds them and get this problem managed. A civilization, mind you, that we do have some responsibility towards making. Europeans have more. But most reside within the Muslims themselves and their twisted un-reformed religion.
    It did help them in these ways:

    1) first and foremost gave them a rallying call that did increase membership. We elevated the status if a relatively small group. And gave them a place to focus on us.

    2) gave a training ground that they would not have had otherwise. They learned a lot thy can use later on.

    3) gave real propaganda they could use. Even gave credence to prior OBL claims.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    It's not "DebateCurrentPolitics.com"

    We demonize the past when the future (of a political position) dries up.
    It's futile. Instead of worrying about what's happening now and what our current president is doing, complain about a guy who hasn't been the president in 4 years ago, and conveniently leave out the role of the current president has played in that, or to continually excuse him by blaming the "other guy" doesn't make any sense to me.

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    Re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Isn't that "preaching" to the choir?

    And I think you miss the point in that you continue on in this thread about a war that's been over for quite a while, complaining about a president who hasn't been the president for about 5 years now, while you and others have had virtually nothing to say about Syria which is a CURRENT issue and is quite a conundrum for us.
    No, I am speaking with someone who disagrees with me. And on topic here on this thread.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    It's futile. Instead of worrying about what's happening now and what our current president is doing, complain about a guy who hasn't been the president in 4 years ago, and conveniently leave out the role of the current president has played in that, or to continually excuse him by blaming the "other guy" doesn't make any sense to me.
    Apparently you don't have dying extreme political positions.

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    Re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, I am speaking with someone who disagrees with me. And on topic here on this thread.
    Meh, I suppose it's for the best that you don't participate in those threads. You'd probably "just blame Bush" anyhow. That should be the liberal mantra.

  8. #578
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    Re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Could be, but I doubt it. There is certainty that all of them will turn out better, because the laws of human nature dictate that the Middle East can do what humans in every other single region has done. There is no reason to assume that Democracy can and does work for virtually every single culture on Earth, but it simply cannot work for Muslims in the Middle East. It's this fear of instability that kept the Middle East imprisoned under dictators. The same fear locked down Iraq in 1991. And it is the same fear Republicans spew today in regards to the Arab Spring under Obama. Praise instability. Let them rise up. Let them declare their loyalties to tribe. Let them slaughter. Let them reshape their states. Let them do exactly what the rest of the world was allowed to do.

    Moderates were not in favor of war with Iraq. That had no consequence. What they watched were Iraqi votes after. Complaining about the carnage as they watched Muslims slaughter Muslims is a culture embarrassment. The Shia rose up on their own before at our bequest. They were slaughtered. Therefore, with or without us in Iraq, those local tribes have murder on the brain. hat's what happens when you spend generations being oppressed by another. It comes out in the end.
    It's not a matter of can or not. It's will or not. It is not something we can make happen. In the end, it will up to them and not us.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    Meh, I suppose it's for the best that you don't participate in those threads. You'd probably "just blame Bush" anyhow. That should be the liberal mantra.
    Bush is only responsible for what he did. Iraq is his.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisL View Post
    I agree with just about everything here except what I put in bold. I did not vote for Obama and I don't think his foreign policies are so wonderful either. I'm especially bothered about what's happening with Syria right now.
    It's not that his Foreign Policies are wonderful. They are just on the right path, which is what Bush started.

    Getting out of the way and not rushing to support dictators was the right move. France offered assistance to their Tunisian dictator in December, but criticized us in January for not jumping quickly with them to Libya to get rid of that dictator. When we did get involved we wound up conducting 80 percent of the fly and missile missions while allowing them to pretend that they were in charge. I didn't care for that, but sometimes we have to throw them a bone.

    This problem with Syria has way too many hands in the pot. Backing off a bit and giving Russia a chance to fail while European nations rush to send in weapons to support rebels was correct. As far as chemical weapons use, it is an international law that urges international response so Obama's "red line" was more bull **** for the masses. It wasn't his call to make as far as what a "red line" is. The use of chemical weapons demands that the UN take action. The same is true for genocide. And it doesn't matter what we do or don't do to support the rebels. Either way we will be blamed for any killing from our weapons or any killing from our refusal to help.

    It was correct to send in the surge into Afghanistan (though he criticized the use of a surge in Iraq) and it was used by the commanders wisely (in both events).

    As far as foreign policy goes, he hasn't done bad. Bush made a fiasco of Iraq though I believe in its greater meaning.

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