View Poll Results: HOW MANY IRAQIS DIED?

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  • 1,000-5,000

    2 3.92%
  • 5,000-50,000

    2 3.92%
  • 50,000-100,000

    12 23.53%
  • 100,000-1,000,000+

    35 68.63%
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Thread: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

  1. #41
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    If you want to change the subject now, fine. We can have that discussion. However, you cannot change the subject that I was specifically addressing. That would be taking my answer out of context and illegitimately applying it to a different argument.
    I wasn't changing the discussion, I was criticizing the way you two were carrying it out.
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    I'm often amused by the outrage of the left when it comes to wartime deaths. 334,000 AMERICAN babies were killed last year here at home by Planned Parenthood strictly out of convenience, and Obama, in a recent speech was heard to say "God bless Planned Parenthood and the work they do". The left does not actually value human life, only political rhetoric and power.

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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    I wasn't changing the discussion, I was criticizing the way you two were carrying it out as unsatisfying.
    I'm sorry if you would have preferred a list of evil intentions. That was not the discussion I was engaged in. I was addressing a more rational question regarding priorities and not the "is the US an evil empire" question that you so desire to explore.

    As I've noted, we can explore the "evil empire" argument if you would like. There's no need for you to live vicariously through my engagements with others on their terms. You can make your own terms and I will make available a new and unique response tailored to your specific concerns and needs.

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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The difference was that none of those other people you cited have ignored 17 UN resolutions demanding an accounting of his WMD stockpiles, were regularly engaging in acts of genocide, and were supporting global terrorism.
    None of those other people? Hmmm...

    Study: Israel leads in ignoring Security Council resolutions - Israel News | Haaretz Daily Newspaper

    Israel leads the list. Since 1968, Israel has violated 32 resolutions that included condemnation or criticism of the governments' policies and actions. Turkey is in second place, with 24 violations since 1974, and Morocco is third with 17 resolutions it ignored.
    So there we have 3 examples of 3 countries who've violated the same if not nearly twice as many UN resolutions as Iraq, yet no invasion.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I'm sorry if you would have preferred a list of evil intentions. That was not the discussion I was engaged in. I was addressing a more rational question regarding priorities and not the "is the US an evil empire" question that you so desire to explore.

    As I've noted, we can explore the "evil empire" argument if you would like. There's no need for you to live vicariously through my engagements with others on their terms. You can make your own terms and I will make available a new and unique response tailored to your specific concerns and needs.
    That's not the point. VanceMeck argued that Saddam needed to be removed from power because so-and-so reason (genocide), which Hatuey challenged by rhetorically asking why other people who committed genocides were not targeted. You posted a list of reasons and insulted him for not being aware of them. A very literal way to respond to a rhetorical question, since, among other things, you can't safely assume someone asking a rhetorical question is not also aware of the full circumstances behind the event that prefaces the question.

    You certainly didn't need to furnish "a list of evil intentions." I don't necessarily disagree with any of your examples, since I haven't heard your interpretation of what they mean.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    That's not the point. VanceMeck argued that Saddam needed to be removed from power because so-and-so reason (genocide), which Hatuey challenged by rhetorically asking why other people who committed genocides were not targeted. You posted a list of reasons and insulted him for not being aware of them. A very literal way to respond to a rhetorical question, since, among other things, you can't safely assume someone asking a rhetorical question is not also aware of the full circumstances behind the event that prefaces the question.

    You certainly didn't need to furnish "a list of evil intentions." I don't necessarily disagree with any of your examples, since I haven't heard your interpretation of what they mean.
    So you understand context and priorities in decision making?

    Then what's the problem?

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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    It certainly couldn't have anything to do with all those Iraqis living on somebody's OIL, or not? Let's see. Iraqis got sand. Iraqis got sand fleas. Iraqis got scorpions. Iraqis got OIL. I wonder if coinky - dink is operating subliminally here, or not?
    If oil was our only concern, why don't we just take Mexico's? Or Venezuela's. Much shorter distance for our Imperialistic storm troopers to travel.

    As usual, you choose the simplistic, anti-American approach to this situation as you do to almost everything else.
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Hundreds of thousands, via genocide alone. Starvation for hundreds of thousands more. Invading Iran cost hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. Many hundreds of thousands (more than a million), over an about 20 year period, through genocide, starvation and the invasion of neighbors alone. This does not (as your 1 million stat does) include natural deaths and routine accidents. If we include non-direct murder, natural events and accidents, then Saddam's number approaches 10 million.

    What kind of ignorance allows for Bush to be responsible for more Iraqi deaths than the 20 year genocidal dictator?
    The kind of ignorance fed by a mentality that essentially takes the position that whatever bad happens in the world, it is the fault of Capitalism generally and the U.S. specifically.
    "Groups with guitars are on the way out, Mr. Epstein"

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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    So you understand context and priorities in decision making?

    Then what's the problem?
    The indirection, as stated.

    As far as the "priorities" part of your argument goes, my problem is that you reduced the issue of invading Iraq to an arithmetical one, where all the values get listed and then the values add up to x -- in this case, x is "America invades Iraq ahead of other countries."

    As you argued it, Hatuey was foolish because he wasn't aware of these values or how they added up (even though he was being rhetorical). Even assuming that such an "arithmetical" conclusion is possible, its not obvious that the values you listed are right ones or that they add up correctly to "America invades Iraq ahead of other countries" because they involved no reasoning anyone else could see.

    Suggesting someone else is incompetent because they didn't add up something you yourself haven't shown to even be plausible (let alone true) is premature.
    Last edited by Morality Games; 06-12-13 at 01:31 PM.
    If you notice something good in yourself, give credit to God, not to yourself, but be certain the evil you commit is always your own and yours to acknowledge.

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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    It certainly couldn't have anything to do with all those Iraqis living on somebody's OIL, or not? Let's see. Iraqis got sand. Iraqis got sand fleas. Iraqis got scorpions. Iraqis got OIL. I wonder if coinky - dink is operating subliminally here, or not?
    For one thing, we only get a small portion of our oil from the ME.

    How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]-gr-oilprod-300-gif

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