View Poll Results: HOW MANY IRAQIS DIED?

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  • 1,000-5,000

    2 3.92%
  • 5,000-50,000

    2 3.92%
  • 50,000-100,000

    12 23.53%
  • 100,000-1,000,000+

    35 68.63%
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Thread: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

  1. #411
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, I made a proper and factual claim the deaths were not high prior to invasion. Not nearly high effort to justify invasion. Your trying to pretend some vp bad was worse than it was, which is sad considering the really was bad enough. But Saddam was not killing in numbers to justify invasion. He just wasn't.

    And the rest you note was long before 2003. As I said, we watched that and did nothing. We waited until long after it was over to add to the total. I'm sure they were real grateful.

    You were wrong about two things:

    1. That Saddam had not slaughtered hundreds of thousands just prior to the invasion.
    2. That the coalition killed more than Saddam.

    Both statements are flat-out BS, according to undeniable evidence.


    How can you be so determined in your ignorance?

  2. #412
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    I've ignored nothing. It is also hubris to assume you know more than others. I have listened to your arguments, I know the history, and have tried to explain why I disagree. Invasion did not help our efforts, but hurt them.
    It would appear that I know far more than everyone here. Your explanations rely upon near sighted Intel that supports the maxim of either only predicting failure or merely reporting daily activity. It speaks nothing of historical understanding, nor does it take into account what is actually happening throughout the region. As these people move closer to democracy and liberal freedom, the religious nuts will gather their strengths, train more extremists, and react. This is natural to the course of all religions throughout the world. It has nothing to do with a single act in Iraq. It has everything to do with a people that are witnessing Islam's failure as an organizing tool (like European Catholicism before it) in the democratic/liberal modern globalizing age and reacting badly. In times of change religious people always turn to God and radicals always seek that which will either turn back the clock or punish those who are blamed for that change. If wish to use Iraq as your argument (others argument) that it created a training ground for terrorists you should turn your gaze South towards Yemen or West towards Africa where this type environment also exists without American invasion. It's a tired excuse argument that has little credibility for a region full of havoc, turmoil, and blood.

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  3. #413
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Democracy doesn't fix everything. Remember Palestinian elections? The problem isn't something we can fix by spreading democracy at gun point.
    Democracy fixes almost everything because it is the only form of government dynamic enough to deal with the many problems of the MENA. Besides, dictators didn't work, monarchies haven't worked, theocracies haven't worked....perhaps since democracy works everywhere else it might work in the MENA. To suggest otherwise is bigotry.

    Do you remember French elections? Remember that Napoleon guy that eventually emerged? Remember German elections? Remember that Hitler guy that emerged? If it took the mighty cheese eating French almost 60 years to get democracy correct and the beer guzzling Germans a course correction, perhaps we can forgive a few missteps that Muslims in the MENA take.

    "Democracy at gun point" is another protestor default to pretend what happened in Iraq defines what the entire region is heading towards on their own. Elections in Iraq were never at gun point.

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  4. #414
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Hardly. Civilians have still been killed during this time, just as they had before. Only now they got to kill even more. We pretended nothing. You can't beat Tarzan by fighting Jane.
    Did I say they weren't?

    You want absolute concrete proof, but you cannot prove a negative. You cannot prove what didn't happen because something else did. We know they hate us and our allies. We know we disrupted their supply, command and training. We know they expended resources. So we know they had all of that and probably would of been using them against other targets if they had not used them there.

    During the whole time of the Iraq war, how many successful attacks were carried out against US civilian targets?

    So "Lighten up Francis."
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  5. #415
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Yes, two lies, agreed. There are lots of things that don't get enforced in this world, often with good reason. Our own people had even down played Saddam as a threat before this effort got started. The reason was because he wasn't one. Merely letting the inspectors finish would have been plenty.
    I can see that you are busy on this thread, so I'll keep it light. You said we were not attacked and appear to at least acknowledge that we were--just not enough to justify the response. Got it. Now you are calling the Iraq War a lie and that some unnamed "our own people" played down Saddam as a threat. Saddam violated the ceasefire and he did block the inspectors, that was all the justification to respond that I feel is required. Did it justify the level of response? That will be debated for years. Did Saddam still have chemical weapons or was he bluffing? Not really clear to me, maybe Saddam's chemical weapons were just used in Syria.

  6. #416
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Wrong.



    Altruism - Definition and More from the Free Merriam-Webster Dictionary


    I benefit from all of my actions (well, except the mistakes, and even those I learn from). I wouldn't do these things if they didn't make me feel better.
    My definition was not wrong. And one could commit an altruistic action and still benefit in some way, it is just not done for outwardly selfish reasons. If you think putting your life on the line every day for the supposed purpose of helping the unfortunate (as you claimed) is not altruistic then really no action is.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  7. #417
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by davidtaylorjr View Post
    Really? How so?
    1. We invaded a sovereign country that did not directly threaten us.
    2. I believe our leaders were dishonest about their motives. I think they were concerned over Hussein moving away from the petrodollar. WMD's were a convenient excuse in a post-911 world.
    3. We aid other governments who have done worse to their citizens.
    "Men did not make the earth ... it is the value of the improvement only, and not the earth itself, that is individual property... Every proprietor owes to the community a ground rent for the land which he holds." -- Thomas Paine, Agrarian Justice
    http://www.wealthandwant.com/

  8. #418
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That's true. You have not been correct.

    You claimed, disgustingly enough, that Saddam had not killed many just prior to the invasion. This grotesque ignorance was corrected, and now you know that Saddam starved 400k children just prior to the invasion.

    Knowing is half the battle.
    Saddam starved?? Uh, are you sure it wasn't the sanctions and lack of economic opportunity due to the draconian Western policies toward Iraq post Gulf War I that caused those deaths? Somehow I don't see Saddam taking bread out of the mouths of children. I do see the rich and powerful in Iraq hoarding what little food there is though.

  9. #419
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by Geoist View Post
    1. We invaded a sovereign country that did not directly threaten us.
    2. I believe our leaders were dishonest about their motives. I think they were concerned over Hussein moving away from the petrodollar. WMD's were a convenient excuse in a post-911 world.
    3. We aid other governments who have done worse to their citizens.
    So would you also say we shouldn't be getting involved in Syria?
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  10. #420
    global liberation

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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Saddam starved?? Uh, are you sure it wasn't the sanctions and lack of economic opportunity due to the draconian Western policies toward Iraq post Gulf War I that caused those deaths?
    Food that was provided during food-for-oil was discovered in surrounding countries. It was sufficient to prevent the starvation of 400k children that did starve. Of course, more than that starved, but we can identify 400k live-child worth of baby formula and child cereal that was instead sold for institutional rape.

    We might note, sanctions never prevented the import of food or medicine. They have only been described as 'draconian' by the most extreme (and generally ignorant) positions. If you want draconian, check out Saddam's rape palaces, where HS girls were passed down the chain and then murdered - as a matter of state policy.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 06-18-13 at 03:02 PM.

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