View Poll Results: HOW MANY IRAQIS DIED?

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  • 1,000-5,000

    2 3.92%
  • 5,000-50,000

    2 3.92%
  • 50,000-100,000

    12 23.53%
  • 100,000-1,000,000+

    35 68.63%
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Thread: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

  1. #391
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    That's true. You have not been correct.

    You claimed, disgustingly enough, that Saddam had not killed many just prior to the invasion. This grotesque ignorance was corrected, and now you know that Saddam starved 400k children just prior to the invasion.

    Knowing is half the battle.
    Had not killed in those numbers and he had not. Kids starved during he war and still today, but you ignore this. Killing people to save them s not too effective, but the fact remains the violence spoke if was not happening.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  2. #392
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Very little. It took them 8 years between the first towers attack and the second, and used no wmds. Cato wrote a nice piece on why hadn't Saddam already destroyed us. Answer, he couldn't. Iraq was a huge overreaction. Just what bin Laden hoped for. It allowed the the opportunity to hurt us that they didn't have, and as the CIA noted some years ago, the training they received in Iraq due to our invasion will allow for killing around the world for years to come. We could not have been more reckless.

    So no, your premise is mistaken. More have and will die due to or hubris than would have had we exercised restraint and handled the situation appropriately.
    Ok then. What does WMDs or Iraq destroying us have to do with anything I said? How did it give them an opportunity to hurt us they didn't have? It did focus them upon or military instead of ours civilians, so I guess that is giving them an opportunity they didn't have. Did they get some experience and training from it? Sure, but don't you think we did too?
    Only a fool measures equality by results and not opportunities.

  3. #393
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Had not killed in those numbers and he had not. Kids starved during he war and still today, but you ignore this. Killing people to save them s not too effective, but the fact remains the violence spoke if was not happening.
    He starved 400k children, ON PURPOSE, he sold their food to support institutional rape, torture and killings, just prior to the invasion.

    Deal with reality.

    You stand corrected.

  4. #394
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    More have and will die due to or hubris than would have had we exercised restraint and handled the situation appropriately.
    Like just keeping the UN mission going despite justification given to men like Osama Bin Laden for 9/11. Restraint is exactly why the region turned into what it is today. Pretending that we could support dictators forever is why wide sweeping oppression and rage exists today. Complaining about the immediate results of opening a can of shaken up soda does nothing to change the fact that eventually you needed to open that can of soda. Of course, we can just throw away the can of soda or merely stop shaking it up. Unfortunately, we couldn't just throw the MEAN away and the shaking was out of our control.

    By the way, restraint is also what gave Syria time to eventually use chemical weapons. Maybe with enough restraint we can watch the region develop nuclear weapons. Then we'll have a party.

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  5. #395
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    His excuses to the public were pathetic. Equally pathetic, however, is the protestor who relies on those excuses to define the event 10 years later.

    The invasion of Iraq was about something far bigger than the simplistic excuses that the American public needed to hear. You are witnessing the entire region moving past their dictators and evolving into what the rest of the world was allowed to become because of what you call a "reckless act." Whether or not the Rumsfeld Coven recognized what they were doing is irrelevant. They stumbled upon it.

    Pretending that Iraq is Iraq and Syria is Syria and Egypt is Egypt is to deny the fact that this is a tribal regional civilization of very like mind and very like wants who are only separated because or reckless European colonialism. Consider the invasion of Iraq as a step to reverse it. People who walk around confused today in regards to the MENA are probably the same sort who were aghast when they watched Yugoslavia crack up in the 1990s. A protestor in Tunisia sparks the Arab Spring throughout the region in multiple countries? A region full of like minded people following each other down the same path even though others live behind different borders? Parts of the populations of these countries sympathize with parts of the populations of other nations in such a way that one would think we are looking at family? This should not confuse people. This is historical. It happened twice in the 20th century and both were after major events in the region. The first time was after WWI when Muslim Arabs rose up against their colonizers and demanded democracy. European colonialism won. The second was after WWII when Muslim Arabs rose up against their European colonizers and demanded democracy. Muslim militant coups won as most of Europe left to lick its wounds and dictators formed. Today, we see Iraqi voters in October 2010 vote in a free election without outside security and two months later a man in Tunisia had enough as he sparked another Muslim Arab cry for democracy throughout the region.

    What I find terribly tragic is how people are completely oblivious to this history as they whine about the danger of ridding this region of dictators, supporting the Arab Spring, or arming rebels against one of the last standing chemical gas using dictators in the region.
    The region has not been rid of, but merely traded one for another. The result will be the same in the end. You can't give this. People must want it. Do it themselves. It is one thing to help those fighting and another thing to have the hubris t think you can give it to them.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #396
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Or simply accept the path laid before us and stop behaving as if ignorance is a religion of worship. Do you not see the entire Middle East erupting? This continual focus on Saddam Hussein as if his was an island set aside from the MENA is tired and pathetic. It's as pathetic as supporters who still insist on WMD. Only fools continue this obsession to pretend that Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Syria, Tunisia, Lebanon, Jordan, Kuwait, Bahrain, etc. are separate issues. This is a civilization cracked apart by bad borders containing bad tribal blood living under religious and fascist style oppression seeking "foreign devils" to blame. - Hence 9/11 as a decades long culmination of exceedingly organizing terrorist activity where memberships come from all of the nations in this region.

    Stench of death? Corporate Military/Industrial Complex? Without dealing with Iraq I guess this wouldn't exist. Death and militancy are products of being sucked out into the world. Isolationism is the cure to both. Of course, this merely means sitting around watching our trades and economy disruptions as people like Europeans create World Wars and force our emergence if only to protect our interests. We could do nothing and wait for the Middle East's tribes to develop nuclear weapons as they bicker and cripple the world's economy. That way we can send millions to their deaths.

    It's a Corporatocracy and "War is good business and business is good." That would be a $700 billion Military Offense budget in a World with no serious threats.

  7. #397
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by DVSentinel View Post
    Ok then. What does WMDs or Iraq destroying us have to do with anything I said? How did it give them an opportunity to hurt us they didn't have? It did focus them upon or military instead of ours civilians, so I guess that is giving them an opportunity they didn't have. Did they get some experience and training from it? Sure, but don't you think we did too?
    Hardly. Civilians have still been killed during this time, just as they had before. Only now they got to kill even more. We pretended nothing. You can't beat Tarzan by fighting Jane.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  8. #398
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by AliHajiSheik View Post
    I acknowledge that invading Iraq makes no logical sense to you. We were attacked, in a much more tangible way than the Gulf on Tonkin. Perhaps you can envision no possible justification for the actions taken, but then why bother enforcing anything.
    Yes, two lies, agreed. There are lots of things that don't get enforced in this world, often with good reason. Our own people had even down played Saddam as a threat before this effort got started. The reason was because he wasn't one. Merely letting the inspectors finish would have been plenty.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #399
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    He starved 400k children, ON PURPOSE, he sold their food to support institutional rape, torture and killings, just prior to the invasion.

    Deal with reality.

    You stand corrected.
    He was not saint, a terrible and brutal tyrant to be sure, but we killed more, much more by invading. Sorry.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  10. #400
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    He starved 400k children, ON PURPOSE, he sold their food to support institutional rape, torture and killings, just prior to the invasion.

    Deal with reality.

    You stand corrected.
    But none of this matters. It never did. Dictators are garbage all over the world. Iraq was about the region. Arguing about it either way as if it sits alone ignores what is happening right now throughout the region. America is not on a mission to sanctify or pacify the world. America's mission has always ben to secure economic interests. The fact that we stand for democracy and liberal freedom for ourselves is what gives us that moral edge that masks true intentions. If the Middle East were not the basket case it is, Saddam's activity within his own borders would not have been an issue for us. It is precisely because he sat in the very heart of this Arab region that he eventually had to go. It's precisely because he couldn't be trusted to behave regionally on his won without our troops amassed in the "Holy Land" that he had to go. It's precisely because this region needed to get past the rule of the dictator and Saddam Hussein personified/codified the region's government identity that he had to go. It's precisely because of missions like UN containment mission over Iraq that gives the Bin Ladens their excuses for terrorism that he had to go.

    Everything else is just a designed excuse to borrow the world's pathetic idea of "legitimacy" just to do what is tactically sound. "Democracy" has been dismissed off as merely rhetoric or an ideologues dream. This is wrong. With over 120 democracies created since 1900, democracy in the Middle East is the correct tactic and it wasn't going to happen with the epitome of the government theme sitting squarely and comfortably in the Middle East under UN protection.
    Last edited by MSgt; 06-18-13 at 12:42 PM.

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