View Poll Results: HOW MANY IRAQIS DIED?

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  • 1,000-5,000

    2 3.92%
  • 5,000-50,000

    2 3.92%
  • 50,000-100,000

    12 23.53%
  • 100,000-1,000,000+

    35 68.63%
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Thread: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

  1. #281
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    You're the one saying we're not responsible for our actions.
    No.

    The US is responsible for the people that the US killed. The Iraqi army is responsible for the people that they killed. The JRTN is responsible for the people they killed. The JAM is responsible for the people they killed. The AAS is responsible for the people they killed.

    People are responsible for their own actions. It's not just the US that is responsible for their own actions and...everyone else's too. That makes no sense.

    Apparently you think any consequence of our actions should be blamed on others.
    I think people that killed people are to blame for those deaths.

    This is becoming the way if think for to many today. We not invade, the killing doesn't happen. We invaded a country on a pretext, with no reasonable justification, costing hundreds of thousands of lives, but lack the balls to take responsibility (or at least one do).
    I take responsibility for all the people I've killed in my life.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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  2. #282
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Since the official number is between 150,000 and 1,000,000.....who are any of you to know the answer?

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  3. #283
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    No, I attribute the deaths to the indirect results of the US action. We created the environment in which death and misery prevailed, like fertilizing a garden.
    ......The problem with your assessment is that it ignores virtually every single Muslim nation in the region. Muslims throughout the region have shown a great talent for slaughtering their own. The entire Arab Spring is full of slaughter and execution. Palestinians have had more blood shed at the hands of other Muslims in two separate events than it has seen from Israel in over 60 years of warfare. Syria, by itself, has proven over the last 2 years what Muslim rage is capable of within its own societies. Afghans are constantly being slaughtered by fellow Muslims. But Iraqis are somehow a product of American invasion? And when Syrians start dying as a result of an American issued weapon will Muslim rage in Syria be an American fault as well?

    With or without American intrusion, Muslims have proven to be their own worst enemies. Blaming the "foreign devil" is a scapegoat in which shallow, ignorant Westerners have been all too eager to legitimize.

    Tribal superiority is the goal of the Muslim world. You see it every single day in the news between Cairo and Islamabad. Iraqis have their own culture to blame for their blood. Maybe more Westerners should start seeing this region for what it is rather than offering them legitimacies in their denials.
    Last edited by MSgt; 06-16-13 at 08:04 PM.

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  4. #284
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    ......The problem with your assessment is that it ignores virtually every single Muslim nation in the region. Muslims throughout the region have shown a great talent for slaughtering their own. The entire Arab Spring is full of slaughter and execution. Palestinians have had more blood shed at the hands of other Muslims in two separate events than it has seen from Israel in over 60 years of warfare. Syria, by itself, has proven over the last 2 years what Muslim rage is capable of within its own societies. Afghans are constantly being slaughtered by fellow Muslims. But Iraqis are somehow a product of American invasion? And when Syrians start dying as a result of an American issued weapon will Muslim rage in Syria be an American fault as well?

    With or without American intrusion, Muslims have proven to be their own worst enemies. Blaming the "foreign devil" is a scapegoat in which shallow, ignorant Westerners have been all too eager to legitimize.

    Tribal superiority is the goal of the Muslim world. You see it every single day in the news between Cairo and Islamabad. Iraqis have their own culture to blame for their blood. Maybe more Westerners should start seeing this region for what it is rather than offering them legitimacies in their denials.

    Right! No OIL in Cairo or Islamabad. See it for what it is.

  5. #285
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    No.

    The US is responsible for the people that the US killed. The Iraqi army is responsible for the people that they killed. The JRTN is responsible for the people they killed. The JAM is responsible for the people they killed. The AAS is responsible for the people they killed.

    People are responsible for their own actions. It's not just the US that is responsible for their own actions and...everyone else's too. That makes no sense.



    I think people that killed people are to blame for those deaths.



    I take responsibility for all the people I've killed in my life.
    So I you let a hold play with a loaded pistol, and the child ****s some, you hold no blame? No, you're trying to make excuses because apparently you have low nation esteem and can't accept responsibility. No invasion, these deaths and suffering don't happen.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  6. #286
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    So I you let a hold play with a loaded pistol, and the child ****s some, you hold no blame? No, you're trying to make excuses because apparently you have low nation esteem and can't accept responsibility. No invasion, these deaths and suffering don't happen.
    Did you just compare the entire nation of Iraq to children? I hope they don't read that and take the liberal Westerner to heart, they might get "low nation esteem". Which apparently is the only reason anyone could possibly have a different viewpoint from your own.

    lol

    I hope you take responsibility for that horrible post and argument.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Right! No OIL in Cairo or Islamabad. See it for what it is.
    So did you miss the point on purpose just to be obtusely argumentative? The point was to show how Muslims slaughter each other routinely and without the help of any outsider. The fact that oil exists in the Middle East has nothing to do with their tribal competition to rule over each other or their quest to use Islam to inflict oppression over each other. Or do you think the absence of oil would make the tribes love each other? If this is what you think you should refer to the region's history, going as far back as the Rashidun caliphate period when the tries first began slaughtering each other over rights to Islam. You see, without the oil, without the West, and without the phases of the moon, the Middle East is still full of Muslims doing what they seem to do best to each other.

    So when people pretend that Muslim slaughter in Iraq is because of American intervention, they should reflect upon the entire region and stop being selective in their assessments. It's quite simple. With oppressive dictators, Muslims behave, but create rage for which their is only "foreign devils" to point towards. Without oppressive dictators, Muslims misbehave and commence to slaughter. Consider three things.....

    1) Ever notice that the more healthy and behaved Muslims in the world are those that get further away from the heartland of Islam? Where is Turkey located? Where is Indonesia located? Where is Iran located?

    2) Another thing to consider is their individual histories. Egypt, Turkey, and Iran seem to have a healthier disposition towards progress, education, and social advancement than the rest. Know what sets them apart? They all have written histories prior to Islam and the Qu'ran. Egyptians, Persians, and Ottomans have an identity that transcends religious fervor.

    3) The root thing to consider that ignites their rage is how they have been forced to live with each other due to European colonialism and bad border making, and later to Cold War prescriptions of "stability." Tribes that have historically not gotten along were suddenly forced together behind bad borders, which tribes that have historically gotten along were separated by bad borders. Do you think Europeans would get along had this occurred to them? Even with their tribes separated according to cultural identity they managed to start two World Wars. Maybe first and foremost, the cure to the Middle East is to re-define the borders according to base tribe just like everywhere else in the world.

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  8. #288
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    Did you just compare the entire nation of Iraq to children? I hope they don't read that and take the liberal Westerner to heart, they might get "low nation esteem". Which apparently is the only reason anyone could possibly have a different viewpoint from your own.

    lol

    I hope you take responsibility for that horrible post and argument.
    Not really. Just chose a simple analogy, hoping you could then see his your actions have consequence. Invasion creates a vacuum. In terms of knowing predictable results, you have to know going in that it will lead to struggle, deaths, a fight for power. Just as you know there will be potentially dangerous consequences to letting. Child play with a gun. It is not that a nation is like a child, but that the consequences of the actions are equally predictable. So, focus on the point, and try not to dodge it.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

  9. #289
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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    Not really. Just chose a simple analogy, hoping you could then see his your actions have consequence. Invasion creates a vacuum. In terms of knowing predictable results, you have to know going in that it will lead to struggle, deaths, a fight for power. Just as you know there will be potentially dangerous consequences to letting. Child play with a gun. It is not that a nation is like a child, but that the consequences of the actions are equally predictable. So, focus on the point, and try not to dodge it.
    So some people are more responsible for their actions than others. That's the point (yours anyway), no one is trying to dodge it.

    You think the US is more responsible for its actions than other nations/groups/people are, apparently.
    The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected.
    -GK Chesterton

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    re: How Many Iraqis Died in the Iraq War?[W:496]

    Quote Originally Posted by OldWorldOrder View Post
    So some people are more responsible for their actions than others. That's the point (yours anyway), no one is trying to dodge it.

    You think the US is more responsible for its actions than other nations/groups/people are, apparently.
    For this war we are. We were reckless, immoral, and dishonest.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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