View Poll Results: Should Clapper and McCullough be prosecuted for PERJURy?

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  • YES

    12 80.00%
  • NO

    2 13.33%
  • THEY LIED, BUT I'M NOT COMFORTABLE WITH PROSECUTION

    0 0%
  • THIS IS ALL BULLCRAP

    1 6.67%
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Thread: Lying to the USA people's elected representatives!

  1. #1
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    Lying to the USA people's elected representatives!

    NSA surveillance: lawmakers urge disclosure as Obama 'welcomes' debate | World news | guardian.co.uk "Among the answers Wyden and Udall received from the intelligence agencies was that the agencies, principally the NSA, lacked the technical capabilities to quantify how much data it took from Americans. Doing so would risk diverting time and money from surveillance, "likely imped[ing] the NSA's mission," I Charles McCullough, the inspector general of the intelligence community, wrote to Wyden and Udall in June 2012. Sifting through the data to find out how much of it came from Americans "would itself violate the privacy of U.S. persons," McCullough continued.
    Yet that is what Boundless Informant appears designed to do. "The tool allows users to select a country on a map and view the metadata volume and select details about the collections against that country," according to an NSA factsheet obtained and published by the Guardian. The volume of surveillance occurring within a given country can be visualized and plotted on a map of the globe; America is one of those countries.
    During a 30-day period in March 2013, the documents indicate, the NSA collected nearly 3 billion pieces of intelligence from within the United States. During that month, at a Senate hearing, Wyden asked James Clapper, the US director of national intelligence: "Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?"
    Clapper replied: "No, sir." He continued: "Not wittingly. There are cases where they could, inadvertently perhaps, collect but not wittingly."
    In December 2012, Wyden and Udall tried to amend a key surveillance law to compel the government to disclose how many Americans the NSA had spied upon. Their effort to amend the Fisa Amendments Act was ultimately unsuccessful something they warned would hobble Congress' oversight functions. "It is not real oversight when the United States Congress cannot get a yes or no answer to the question of whether an estimate currently exists as to whether law abiding Americans have had their phone calls and emails swept up under the Fisa law," Wyden said on December 28" NSA "Boundless Informant" Heat Map Shows Surveillance Areas Around The Globe - HotHardware "The problem with Boundless Informant isn't that it exists -- it's that it proves the NSA flatly lied to Congress a year ago. In June 2012, Congressmen Ron Wyden (D-Ore) and Mark Udall (D-Col), both of whom sit the Senate intelligence oversight committee, requested that the NSA provide "a ballpark estimate of how many Americans have been monitored under this law." "This law" refers to the 2008 FISA extension. The response from Charles McCullough, Inspector General of the Intelligence Community, was breathtaking. First, he claimed that investigating how many Americans the NSA had spied upon was "beyond the capacity of [t]his office." Then he wrote "an IG review of the sort suggested would itself violate the privacy of U.S. persons."

    Now, we know better. While it's true that Boundless Informant doesn't track FISA requests, it tracks billions of *other* data points that the NSA records on a monthly basis. Now, we know that the NSA has metadata for Verizon (acknowledged), and almost certainly every other carrier. Now, we know the NSA is tracking foreign Internet traffic as it passes through the United States. The idea that the NSA couldn't provide a ballpark summary of how many US citizens it placed under surveillance is flatly untrue. The idea that it refused to do so out of concerns for citizen privacy was ludicrous a year ago, but it's ridiculous past the point of ignoring it today" President Obama's Data Harvesting Program: NSA as Pollster, PRISM as MISO - English pravda.ru "Alcatel-Lucent's product PRISM/GORI manages SMS (text) messages. A sample of DOD's DTIC search engine returns when PRISM is entered follows: MITRE's PRISM is a software program used to request intelligence collection on moving vehicles, aircraft, people and animals; PaRallel Inference SysteM--PRISM-a connectionist inference for developing machine language and autonomous network management programs; and RDTE Budget Note--PRISM to MAJIIC Interoperability Assessment: assessed that Planning Tool for Resource, Integration, Synchronization and Management (PRISM) and the interface to NATO Multi-Sensor Aerospace-Ground Joint ISR Interoperability Coalition (MAJIIC) was functional and ready for operations by demonstrating automated interoperability and exchange of intelligence requirements." "
    The US national security machinery has stated time and again that the Internet and World Wide Web are fair game for military information support operations (MISO) and that means shaping the consciousness of individuals, organizations and governments to the benefit of America's national interests. Viewed in this manner, it is possible to argue that PRISM would have a chilling effect on not only whistleblowers and their media handlers, but perhaps on practitioners of industrial espionage whether they are French, Chinese or Israeli's.The calculated pursuit of mainstream media by President Obama, the publicizing by the US corporate-national security machinery of PRISM, Stuxnet-and the takedown of BitCoin websites; and the entry of Cyber Command into the daily lives of Americans seems to suggest that a new order is afoot, or at least that the US Corporate State is trying to recover/wrest control of the US historical-current-future narrative from independent internal and foreign news/information sources. Obama seems to have taken US presidential paranoia to new levels." " First, this post clears the meaning of the acronyms like PRISM, MISO, etc. Second, the three posts clearly define the testimony to the people's USA representatives, Wyden and Udall by Clapper and McCullough. Isn't this simply PERJURY and to the American people?

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    Re: Lying to the USA people's elected representatives!

    When you lie to the representatives of the American people, you are lying to the people. Ergo, everyone from the USA should feel personally lied to. Senate testimony is under oath, so lies are perjury. Is this what we deserve for being such a bunch of lackeys and partisan leeches? The articles by different reporters and news organizations clearly define what the testimony was. They're all foreign sources and I wonder why that is?

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    Re: Lying to the USA people's elected representatives!

    Pravda?

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    Re: Lying to the USA people's elected representatives!

    [QUOTE=ecofarm;1061910813]Pravda?[/QUOTE


    Please show me any other source that explained the acronyms or dummy up! Man up and vote.

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    Re: Lying to the USA people's elected representatives!

    I don't understand that with all the brouhaha and comment on Snowden's release of the NSA surveillance of USA phone, internet, etc. how this post can be ignored. Clapper and McCullough both lied to Wyden and Udall when questioned in the Senate. Wyden and Udall represent you and I in this matter and ergo they lied to us collectively. The surveillance network and analysis software has been operating since before 2007 and Clapper and McCullough testified in 2012 so there is no doubt it is not a near time incident that could excuse the lies. This is PERJURY to the American people. This is where you address this problem and begin reforms to get the Intelligence Agencies out of our asses. Why talk about Snowden and ignore the real lawbreakers?

  6. #6
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    Re: Lying to the USA people's elected representatives!

    The gov't is up our collective noses and this is where action can be taken to remedy the problem. Of course, if everyone lies to the people's representatives/investigators then we will not make progress. That is what is happening here and no one seems to notice. I would appreciate any info as to why this issue does not seem important to DP posters.

  7. #7
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    Re: Lying to the USA people's elected representatives!

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    NSA surveillance: lawmakers urge disclosure as Obama 'welcomes' debate | World news | guardian.co.uk "Among the answers Wyden and Udall received from the intelligence agencies was that the agencies, principally the NSA, lacked the technical capabilities to quantify how much data it took from Americans. Doing so would risk diverting time and money from surveillance, "likely imped[ing] the NSA's mission," I Charles McCullough, the inspector general of the intelligence community, wrote to Wyden and Udall in June 2012. Sifting through the data to find out how much of it came from Americans "would itself violate the privacy of U.S. persons," McCullough continued.
    Yet that is what Boundless Informant appears designed to do. "The tool allows users to select a country on a map and view the metadata volume and select details about the collections against that country," according to an NSA factsheet obtained and published by the Guardian. The volume of surveillance occurring within a given country can be visualized and plotted on a map of the globe; America is one of those countries.
    During a 30-day period in March 2013, the documents indicate, the NSA collected nearly 3 billion pieces of intelligence from within the United States. During that month, at a Senate hearing, Wyden asked James Clapper, the US director of national intelligence: "Does the NSA collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of Americans?"
    Clapper replied: "No, sir." He continued: "Not wittingly. There are cases where they could, inadvertently perhaps, collect but not wittingly."
    In December 2012, Wyden and Udall tried to amend a key surveillance law to compel the government to disclose how many Americans the NSA had spied upon. Their effort to amend the Fisa Amendments Act was ultimately unsuccessful something they warned would hobble Congress' oversight functions. "It is not real oversight when the United States Congress cannot get a yes or no answer to the question of whether an estimate currently exists as to whether law abiding Americans have had their phone calls and emails swept up under the Fisa law," Wyden said on December 28" NSA "Boundless Informant" Heat Map Shows Surveillance Areas Around The Globe - HotHardware "The problem with Boundless Informant isn't that it exists -- it's that it proves the NSA flatly lied to Congress a year ago. In June 2012, Congressmen Ron Wyden (D-Ore) and Mark Udall (D-Col), both of whom sit the Senate intelligence oversight committee, requested that the NSA provide "a ballpark estimate of how many Americans have been monitored under this law." "This law" refers to the 2008 FISA extension. The response from Charles McCullough, Inspector General of the Intelligence Community, was breathtaking. First, he claimed that investigating how many Americans the NSA had spied upon was "beyond the capacity of [t]his office." Then he wrote "an IG review of the sort suggested would itself violate the privacy of U.S. persons."

    Now, we know better. While it's true that Boundless Informant doesn't track FISA requests, it tracks billions of *other* data points that the NSA records on a monthly basis. Now, we know that the NSA has metadata for Verizon (acknowledged), and almost certainly every other carrier. Now, we know the NSA is tracking foreign Internet traffic as it passes through the United States. The idea that the NSA couldn't provide a ballpark summary of how many US citizens it placed under surveillance is flatly untrue. The idea that it refused to do so out of concerns for citizen privacy was ludicrous a year ago, but it's ridiculous past the point of ignoring it today" President Obama's Data Harvesting Program: NSA as Pollster, PRISM as MISO - English pravda.ru "Alcatel-Lucent's product PRISM/GORI manages SMS (text) messages. A sample of DOD's DTIC search engine returns when PRISM is entered follows: MITRE's PRISM is a software program used to request intelligence collection on moving vehicles, aircraft, people and animals; PaRallel Inference SysteM--PRISM-a connectionist inference for developing machine language and autonomous network management programs; and RDTE Budget Note--PRISM to MAJIIC Interoperability Assessment: assessed that Planning Tool for Resource, Integration, Synchronization and Management (PRISM) and the interface to NATO Multi-Sensor Aerospace-Ground Joint ISR Interoperability Coalition (MAJIIC) was functional and ready for operations by demonstrating automated interoperability and exchange of intelligence requirements." "
    The US national security machinery has stated time and again that the Internet and World Wide Web are fair game for military information support operations (MISO) and that means shaping the consciousness of individuals, organizations and governments to the benefit of America's national interests. Viewed in this manner, it is possible to argue that PRISM would have a chilling effect on not only whistleblowers and their media handlers, but perhaps on practitioners of industrial espionage whether they are French, Chinese or Israeli's.The calculated pursuit of mainstream media by President Obama, the publicizing by the US corporate-national security machinery of PRISM, Stuxnet-and the takedown of BitCoin websites; and the entry of Cyber Command into the daily lives of Americans seems to suggest that a new order is afoot, or at least that the US Corporate State is trying to recover/wrest control of the US historical-current-future narrative from independent internal and foreign news/information sources. Obama seems to have taken US presidential paranoia to new levels." " First, this post clears the meaning of the acronyms like PRISM, MISO, etc. Second, the three posts clearly define the testimony to the people's USA representatives, Wyden and Udall by Clapper and McCullough. Isn't this simply PERJURY and to the American people?




    They should be prosecuted, and they should pay the maximum possible penalty.

    I have an extremely strong dislike for liars.

    No one working for the U.S. government has my permission to violate my fourth amendment rights.



    The only thing worse than a liar is a liar that's also a hypocrite!" ~ Tennessee Williams

  8. #8
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    Re: Lying to the USA people's elected representatives!

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    They should be prosecuted, and they should pay the maximum possible penalty.

    I have an extremely strong dislike for liars.

    No one working for the U.S. government has my permission to violate my fourth amendment rights.



    The only thing worse than a liar is a liar that's also a hypocrite!" ~ Tennessee Williams

    Thanks for replying. It seems like a no-brainer to me and of keen interest, but this post has received minimal response. Curious. I don't think that the readers want to believe it. The truth and what one wants to believe are not often similar.

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    Re: Lying to the USA people's elected representatives!

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    Thanks for replying. It seems like a no-brainer to me and of keen interest, but this post has received minimal response. Curious. I don't think that the readers want to believe it. The truth and what one wants to believe are not often similar.




    The NSA has done a lot of good work for the USA.

    For a number of years I have suspected that what was recently revealed by Mr. Snowden was going on, mainly because I knew that the NSA COULD do this.

    I was not happy to find out that my suspicions were correct.




    No one working for the U.S. government has my permission to violate my Fourth Amendment rights.

  10. #10
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    Re: Lying to the USA people's elected representatives!

    Quote Originally Posted by shrubnose View Post
    The NSA has done a lot of good work for the USA.

    For a number of years I have suspected that what was recently revealed by Mr. Snowden was going on, mainly because I knew that the NSA COULD do this.

    I was not happy to find out that my suspicions were correct.




    No one working for the U.S. government has my permission to violate my Fourth Amendment rights.
    To be brutally honest, I have lost all faith in any USA Intelligence Agencies. They seem to operate as Corporate stooges and if Corporate was good for America, we would not have the unemployment (some of that blame is Unions) and huge disparity between the 99.9% and the .1%. The CIA record around the world is deplorable. Watch the Whitey Bulger trial and the FBI role. It's endemic because power corrupts and guess who's been corrupted.

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