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Edward Snowden - Jail, or a Parade?

Jail or a Parade


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Dragonfly

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NSA leaker holed up in Hong Kong hotel, running low on cash - CNN.com <-- clicky


Hong Kong (CNN) -- The man behind of one of the biggest leaks in the history of U.S. intelligence is a former technical assistant for the CIA who is now holed up in a Hong Kong hotel, in danger of running out of money and hoping to find asylum somewhere in the world.
Edward Snowden, 29, was identified over the weekend by American and British newspapers as the person who exposed details of a top-secret American program that collects vast streams of phone and Internet data.

So, is he a hero, or traitor?

Would you put him in jail? Or throw him a parade?
 
So, is he a hero, or traitor?

He's a hero. There is a key difference between this guy's actions and those of Manning: This guy actually had access to the data he was releasing, he went through it and made informed decisions with regards what to make public. Manning only knew the contents of a fraction of what he released, and even that he only knew because he was told, all the files he "leaked" were encrypted and he had no idea what the actual contents of most of them were when he handed them over to be decrypted by people he really didn't know all that well. As such, he can't claim to have been making an informed decision.

To me, that marks a massive difference between the two.
 
Snowden is the equivalent of Dennis Rodman, looking for a well-heeled donor to give him a life of ease as a symbol of resistance to American hegemony.

Snowden didn't act as a patriot, he skeedadled to Hong Kong instead of facing up to what he did. Hell, I don't think his intentions were as an enemy of the U.S. either. He wanted to get famous and live the good life. Like Manning, I don't think he really understood what he was getting in to. I wish him luck.
 
He's a hero. There is a key difference between this guy's actions and those of Manning: This guy actually had access to the data he was releasing, he went through it and made informed decisions with regards what to make public. Manning only knew the contents of a fraction of what he released, and even that he only knew because he was told, all the files he "leaked" were encrypted and he had no idea what the actual contents of most of them were when he handed them over to be decrypted by people he really didn't know all that well. As such, he can't claim to have been making an informed decision.

To me, that marks a massive difference between the two.

So what if Snowden was more selective? They both made public top secret information, and, as employees of the state, had an oath of confidentiality, no?
 
So what if Snowden was more selective? They both made public top secret information, and, as employees of the state, had an oath of confidentiality, no?
It's not about being more or less selective, it's about Snowden making an informed decision based on data he could actually see, compared to Manning who didn't even know exactly what he was leaking or who he was leaking it to. One is an informed decision, the other is arguably a lot more reckless (though just to be clear, I'm not in a position to be condemning either of them).
 
He wants to portray himself as engaging in Civil Disobedience. Let him. Jail.
 
He wants to portray himself as engaging in Civil Disobedience. Let him. Jail.

So you view the data mining and surveillance by our government as reasonable and legitimate behavior?
 
He wants to portray himself as engaging in Civil Disobedience. Let him. Jail.
There are consequences for such things, and that he's running away from them speaks volumes. He's 29 and running out of money in a foreign land? Cry me a river.
 
He wants to portray himself as engaging in Civil Disobedience. Let him. Jail.

How could he go to jail if he didn't do anything illegal ? All he did was report on illegal activity.
 
He's a hero. There is a key difference between this guy's actions and those of Manning: This guy actually had access to the data he was releasing, he went through it and made informed decisions with regards what to make public. Manning only knew the contents of a fraction of what he released, and even that he only knew because he was told, all the files he "leaked" were encrypted and he had no idea what the actual contents of most of them were when he handed them over to be decrypted by people he really didn't know all that well. As such, he can't claim to have been making an informed decision.

To me, that marks a massive difference between the two.

Another difference is that one was in the military while the other was a civilian.
 
So you view the data mining and surveillance by our government as reasonable and legitimate behavior?

That is not what I said. But he broke the law. I happen to believe that the Rule of Law is important.
 
How could he go to jail if he didn't do anything illegal ? All he did was report on illegal activity.

Incorrect. The divulgance of classified information is indeed illegal. That is why we put people in jail for espionage.
 
Another difference is that one was in the military while the other was a civilian.

Are CIA classed as civilians? Sorry, I'm not American and don't actually know. I assumed his level of legal responsibility would have been greater than a regular civilian.
 
I don't think anything will happen to him. Because he revealed himself, the gummint can't shove make him disappear in Guantanamo without raising suspicion.

That means he'll get a trial, but in that trial, the gummint is going to have a tough time prosecuting him, seeing that he can just argue in court that the act which he tattled on was itself illegal (i. e. unconstitutional), UNLESS the gummint can find a solid legal justification for its spying, which could be tough because lawyers are already saying that the spying program couldn't be defended under FISA.

So holder is gonna have to work out a plea agreement, but even that could be difficult, because as a NSA contractor, it's likely this guy could threaten to reveal much more than he already has.
 
Incorrect. The divulgance of classified information is indeed illegal.

Not if the classified act was itself illegal.

So if Obama ordered the Delta Force to assassinate 30 elementary school kids in Pakistan becasue they sent him hate mail, and then decided to classify it, and then someone leaked it, would that person be breaking the law :rolleyes: ?
 
NSA leaker holed up in Hong Kong hotel, running low on cash - CNN.com <-- clicky




So, is he a hero, or traitor?

Would you put him in jail? Or throw him a parade?
The information released by Snowden proves absolutely that the head of the NSA, Clapper, lied to a Congressional Committee of Wyden and Udall. Lied. That would be perjury. Clapper said no surveillance occurred in the USA and if it did, it definitely could not be quantified or identified. PRISM gives an exact count and has been doing so since 2007 and before. Billions and billions are revealed on the colorful intercept charts of worldwide snooping. Why aren't the citizens demanding the arrest of Clapper for perjury? He's the criminal.
 
That is not what I said. But he broke the law. I happen to believe that the Rule of Law is important.

Sorry, he didn't break the law because the classified material that he revealed was directly related to illegal activity. That's being a rat, not a criminal.
 
He's a hero and deserves our endless support.
 
That is not what I said. But he broke the law. I happen to believe that the Rule of Law is important.

Revealing classified information about an illegal program is a criminal act?
 
Not if the classified act was itself illegal.

That is incorrect - it is not Snowden's purview to seek to overturn the combined judgement of the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches as to what is and is not legal under the Constitution.

So if Obama ordered the Delta Force to assassinate 30 elementary school kids in Pakistan becasue they sent him hate mail, and then decided to classify it, and then someone leaked it, would that person be breaking the law?

Yup.
 
Sorry, he didn't break the law because the classified material that he revealed was directly related to illegal activity. That's being a rat, not a criminal.

Incorrect - the divulgance of classified material is and remains a criminal act, regardless of what you think of the legality of the collection platform or activity divulged. The one has precisely zero bearing on the legality of the other.
 
Incorrect - the divulgance of classified material is and remains a criminal act, regardless of what you think of the legality of the collection platform or activity divulged. The one has precisely zero bearing on the legality of the other.

Assassinating Hitler would have also been an illegal act.
 
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