View Poll Results: Jail or a Parade

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  • Jail

    18 21.43%
  • Parade

    40 47.62%
  • No extradition - let him live elsewhere

    9 10.71%
  • I'm sitting on fence at the moment

    13 15.48%
  • other - please explain

    4 4.76%
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Thread: Edward Snowden - Jail, or a Parade?

  1. #51
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    Re: Edward Snowden - Jail, or a Parade?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckBerry View Post
    Or, because he started receiving daily briefings showing how horrible the world really is, he changed his notion of what needed to be done to protect the homeland?
    If that's the narrative you've crafted in your head, go with it. Had Obama given a serious indication that that's why he now supports such programs, then my opinion would be different. In fact, as someone who voted for Obama, I gave him a significant benefit of the doubt before he responded to the concerns of people like me with arrogant and dismissive BS.

    There also isn't any indication that these programs are necessary for national security so your argument holds even less water.

  2. #52
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    Re: Edward Snowden - Jail, or a Parade?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckBerry View Post
    Or, because he started receiving daily briefings showing how horrible the world really is, he changed his notion of what needed to be done to protect the homeland?
    This occurs to me when stuff like this happens, but... is being naive to how the world really is a legitimate defense? Is that a forgivable qualification for the office? Which leads me to...


    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    I think Obama did what all candidates do when running for office, say what people want to hear to get elected, then do what it takes in their estimation to effectively run the gov in the real world. I'm not saying they always make the right decisions when they get in but when they promise the moon and the stars who's being naive?
    Back as far as I can remember Presidents and Congresspeople claim that they can't do what they promised because the situations were more complicated than they realized. Really? Are they that naive? Are we?

    Maybe I'm getting too cynical in my old age, but I've seen the same scenario happen so often that I have to conclude they make these promises on purpose because we fall for it.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  3. #53
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    Re: Edward Snowden - Jail, or a Parade?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    It's a shame, especially for Obama. He had a chance to be much more than he's turned out to be. He really squandered an opportunity.
    He's a status quo supporter, there was no reason to believe he'd do anything more than to support and proliferate the status quo.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  4. #54
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    Re: Edward Snowden - Jail, or a Parade?

    So you say:

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    If that's the narrative you've crafted in your head, go with it.
    But then you say:

    as someone who voted for Obama, I gave him a significant benefit of the doubt before he responded to the concerns of people like me with arrogant and dismissive BS.
    ...so what about the narrative you crafted in YOUR head? Or can we dismiss with the petty putdowns?
    The morality of abortion is not a religious belief, any more than the morality of slavery, apartheid, rape, larceny, murder or arson is a religious belief. These are norms of the natural law of mankind and can be legislated even in a completely religionless society.

  5. #55
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    Re: Edward Snowden - Jail, or a Parade?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    is being naive to how the world really is a legitimate defense? Is that a forgivable qualification for the office?
    It has to be. Just as a kid who says they'll never do this or that later does just that because the reality of the adult world makes their principled objections unworkable, so too we must understand that people who don't know...don't know...

    Mind you, neither my rejection of Snowden's crass opportunism or forgiveness of Obama makes me accept the vast data collection as a good thing. I think the U.S.A. P.A.T.R.I.O.T. Act has been stretched beyond its already overly broad boundaries, and I think we need to dial things back a good bit. Data collection on the movements of people in its borders is not an absolute need of the government...they ought to have a court order to collect specific information about specific people. However, I do support warrantless wiretaps in unusual situations if there is a strong need and very specific reasoning to do so, which must still then be reviewed by a judge and justified.
    The morality of abortion is not a religious belief, any more than the morality of slavery, apartheid, rape, larceny, murder or arson is a religious belief. These are norms of the natural law of mankind and can be legislated even in a completely religionless society.

  6. #56
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    Re: Edward Snowden - Jail, or a Parade?

    He broke the law and violated his oath, but then again so did top obama administrators.

    Snowden broke the law and should have to pay for what he did, but under the Obama administration the law is subjective.

  7. #57
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    Re: Edward Snowden - Jail, or a Parade?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckBerry View Post
    So you say:

    But then you say:

    ...so what about the narrative you crafted in YOUR head? Or can we dismiss with the petty putdowns?
    I don't follow. Are you claiming that Obama's arrogant and dismissive response was a narrative crafted in my head? That would be an odd claim since Obama's press conference happened outside of my head whereas your hypothesis about Obama's actions is exclusively in yours.

  8. #58
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    Re: Edward Snowden - Jail, or a Parade?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    He broke the law and violated his oath, but then again so did top obama administrators.

    Snowden broke the law and should have to pay for what he did, but under the Obama administration the law is subjective.
    But when it's possible that "breaking the law" could be for the collective benefit/good of hundreds of millions of people is it really "breaking the law"?

  9. #59
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    Re: Edward Snowden - Jail, or a Parade?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    This occurs to me when stuff like this happens, but... is being naive to how the world really is a legitimate defense? Is that a forgivable qualification for the office? Which leads me to...



    Back as far as I can remember Presidents and Congresspeople claim that they can't do what they promised because the situations were more complicated than they realized. Really? Are they that naive? Are we?

    Maybe I'm getting too cynical in my old age, but I've seen the same scenario happen so often that I have to conclude they make these promises on purpose because we fall for it.
    They make those promises because that's what people want to hear. Any candidate that tells people it's going to be tough and we won't get all our objectives achieved may be telling the truth but it won't get them elected. People as a whole are idealistically naive about how life is full of compromises. As wonderful/hard as life can be it's never going to be this polyannish dream that exists in our heads. But we still have to reach for the stars just to get to the moon.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

  10. #60
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    Re: Edward Snowden - Jail, or a Parade?

    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    Any candidate that tells people it's going to be tough and we won't get all our objectives achieved may be telling the truth but it won't get them elected.
    That's actually what Obama said. Spoiler Alert: He was elected.

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