View Poll Results: Should the Patriot Act be allowed to expire?

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  • Yes. It is a grave threat to liberty.

    49 96.08%
  • No. We need the protection from terrorists.

    2 3.92%
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Thread: Should the Patriot Act be allowed to expire?

  1. #11
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    Re: Should the Patriot Act be allowed to expire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It is amusing to me that those crying about the Patriot Act are the ones who cry loudest when there is a terrorist attack. Of course, simple solutions appeal to people who do not understand all of what they speak of. The Patriot Act is a large, complex piece of legislature which does alot of things. Some are flat out good(enhanced border security and investigative power for the INS for example). Some not so much. What should happen is it should be improved, not some knee jerk reaction that the same people calling for would be the ones complaining loudest about ramifications of it expiring.
    There is no possible way that the massive violation of civil liberties in the past decade can be justified by a few reasonable updates to law enforcement techniques. The cost benefit ratio is not even close to being even. The PATRIOT act needs to be repealed immediately and then one can discuss re-creating some of the acceptable provisions in new legislation.

  2. #12
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    Re: Should the Patriot Act be allowed to expire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It is amusing to me that those crying about the Patriot Act are the ones who cry loudest when there is a terrorist attack. Of course, simple solutions appeal to people who do not understand all of what they speak of. The Patriot Act is a large, complex piece of legislature which does alot of things. Some are flat out good(enhanced border security and investigative power for the INS for example). Some not so much. What should happen is it should be improved, not some knee jerk reaction that the same people calling for would be the ones complaining loudest about ramifications of it expiring.
    The knee jerk reaction was passing the PA in the first place. It should be allowed to die, it should be actively hunted to extinction. Nothing good has come from the PA, which should be no surprise because just by fact that it's named the Patriot Act, you know government was up to no good. If there is anything "good" in the PA, then Congress can pass a smaller bill containing only that part. But there is too much direly wrong with the PA to think that a mere pruning job is in order. It must be destroyed.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #13
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    Re: Should the Patriot Act be allowed to expire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    While one may feasibly go "But we can just repass the good stuff from it", I don't believe that's realisitc. It wasn't realistic prior to PATROIT as this topic is always a contentious one, but when you combine the fact that anything that is born from Patriot would be labeled as it's "spawn" and gain the political stigma that goes along with it, there is little chance that attempting to pass the "good parts" would actually work out.
    That is a sacrifice worth paying. Potentially reducing the effectiveness of law enforcement is unfortunate, but it is minor compared to consequences of recent government abuses. There are decent odds that congress would be able to re-pass the appropriate legislation especially if they hid it in some omnibus bill 5 minutes before voting on it and included enough pork to make everyone happy. No country dissolved into tyranny because they had out of date intelligence legislation, the same cannot be said for the recent violation of civil liberties.

  4. #14
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    Re: Should the Patriot Act be allowed to expire?

    The PA is not something that can be fixed with a few tweaks here and there. There are some aspects that are positive, though. Hence, it should be allowed to expire*, then re-written and scaled back appropriately.

    *-Repealed now, ideally, but let's get real... (unfortunately, expiration and re-writing probably won't happen either)
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

  5. #15
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    Re: Should the Patriot Act be allowed to expire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    The Patriot Act currently lasts for another couple of years, requiring Congressional action to continue it. Should it be continued or allowed to expire?

    (I'm intentionally not creating the "Repeal it now" option; I'm assuming that Congress and the president are very unlikely to do that.)
    It needs to be revamped if anything, obviously the Obama Administration is blatantly abusing it.
    Freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. We didn't pass it to our children in the bloodstream. It must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same.

    Ronald Reagan

  6. #16
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    Re: Should the Patriot Act be allowed to expire?

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Hence, it should be allowed to expire*, then re-written and scaled back appropriately.
    And given what you know about politics, you believe that such a re-write...regardless of how sound a bill it is...would likely muster enough bipartisan support to pass let given the potential fodder for public fury anything that could be linked to "Patroit" would provide in campaigns?

  7. #17
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    Re: Should the Patriot Act be allowed to expire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And given what you know about politics, you believe that such a re-write...regardless of how sound a bill it is...would likely muster enough bipartisan support to pass let given the potential fodder for public fury anything that could be linked to "Patroit" would provide in campaigns?
    Given what we know about politics, how likely is it that they'd allow it to expire in the first place. They're more likely to be tacking on.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #18
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    Re: Should the Patriot Act be allowed to expire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Given what we know about politics, how likely is it that they'd allow it to expire in the first place. They're more likely to be tacking on.
    Oh, I don't expect that it will be let to fully expire.

    But I was going off the scenario the poster suggested.

  9. #19
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    Re: Should the Patriot Act be allowed to expire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Oh, I don't expect that it will be let to fully expire.

    But I was going off the scenario the poster suggested.
    That's my plan for it too though. Kill it and anything "beneficial" can be written back as a limited bill dealing with only that power. If that bill cannot rise above the level of partisan bickering, then we didn't need it in the first place.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #20
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    Re: Should the Patriot Act be allowed to expire?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Oh, I don't expect that it will be let to fully expire.

    But I was going off the scenario the poster suggested.
    I was just stating what I think *should* happen. I don't actually think it will happen.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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