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Thread: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

  1. #61
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    Re: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    I voted against your idea because if there were not rules and punishment for divulging certain secrets the government needs to keep, we'd put a lot of good men and women's lives in jeopardy. I think the threat of punishment is just right. If you are truly just in revealing a secret, punishment generally won't follow.
    What specific secret has been revealed here? Just general capabilities.

    What specifically is the harm in revealing that the NSA intercepts information indiscriminately? That conspirators might start being increasingly cautious about their communications? And then what would we have? A de facto restoration of the 4th Amendment? So what? What's so bad about still having a working 4th Amendment?

    Who decides that it's "a secret the government needs to keep?" Let me guess: the government? That seems like the magic bullet excuse.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 06-10-13 at 07:06 PM.

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    Re: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Here is another crazy idea: how about we actually expect people to obey the laws of the country they choose to live in.
    What... and give up the right to be an oppositional asshole who preaches one thing but lives quite another while enjoying the fruits of the benefits from the system they repeatedly criticize?
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  3. #63
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    Re: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Meh. I'm a firm believer that rats should be hanged by the neck until dead.
    I take that as a personal attack.

    Hang me by my tail but not by the neck.

  4. #64
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    Re: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    What specific secret has been revealed here? Just general capabilities.

    What specifically is the harm in revealing that the NSA intercepts information indiscriminately? That conspirators might start being increasingly cautious about their communications? And then what would we have? A de facto restoration of the 4th Amendment? So what? What's so bad about still having a working 4th Amendment?

    Who decides that it's "a secret the government needs to keep?" Let me guess: the government? That seems like the magic bullet excuse.
    That's my point. Because this is information about how people's rights are violated, it is a good leak. But can you imagine if there was no punishment for leaks? We'd have websites dedicated to every "covert" (hard to call it that when it's on the web for everyone to see) activity that the US is engaged in. There must be protections, and I don't think that what's in place is bad.
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  5. #65
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    Re: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    Thank you.

    Now, what if obeying those laws poses a greater threat to the country than disobeying them?
    Careful now. You don't want to excite the people that cannot and/or refuse to think that way. Might give them a headache, or something.

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    Re: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Not the case as there are mechanisms that legally allow people to report violations and provide protections to those people.
    Provide protections to whistleblowers you mean.

    Not to be too rude, but what ****ing world do you live in? Headupyourassville?
    Last edited by Jango; 06-11-13 at 12:16 AM.

  7. #67
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    Re: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

    I have to say, and this doesn't happen often, but I agree with Henrin here. If the gov. is wiretapping everyone here, to find a "terrorist", you're damn right I wanna know. I don't think the guy is a traitor, if anything he is a hero.
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  8. #68
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    Re: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Alrighty...then who decides what is or isn't treason?
    Exactly, who decides who is and isn't a terrorist? The government.
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  9. #69
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    Re: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

    What this really boils down to is, is it illegal to spill the beans on a law that may or may not be lawful.

    The Patriot Act allowing for the seizure of these records, but is that unlawful seizure?
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  10. #70
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    Re: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD
    If he's a hero, he won't go to jail. If it's legal? He should spend a good 20 years there.
    The problem is that laws are often wrong. The question is not whether what NSA is doing is illegal. It probably isn't. The question is whether it's wrong. Laws can be written with evil consequences intended, and loopholes in laws can be found by those who want to do evil. Consider: given the laws of Germany in the 1930's and 1940's, the holocaust was legal. Note: I do not mean to suggest that the two (i.e. NSA spying vs. murdering ~6 million people) are morally equivalent. Absolutely not. But the point remains--governments can perpetrate wrong by legislation.

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