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Thread: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

  1. #41
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    Re: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    No, that is not what I'm doing. I'm making a hard choice between two really crappy choices. Sure, you should fight for them, but you still have to keep them safe in the mean time.
    Or take the opportunity to end it before it got out of control, and eventually boiled into a civil war that permanently split the nation. He had the position, influence, and power. He did nothing to end it, as they all did when writing the Constitution. They did nothing but decide that a slave was only three fifths of a human being.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  2. #42
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    Re: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Or take the opportunity to end it before it got out of control, and eventually boiled into a civil war that permanently split the nation. He had the position, influence, and power. He did nothing to end it, as they all did when writing the Constitution. They did nothing but decide that a slave was only three fifths of a human being.
    Ending slavery was not politically possible and no amount of power or influence was going to make it so. They had to compromise on the position or end up with nothing. It was just that simple.

  3. #43
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    Re: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Not the case as there are mechanisms that legally allow people to report violations and provide protections to those people.
    1. What happens when no actual "violation" takes place, but the ethical problem is still worse than the consequences of disobeying the law?

    2. What happens when the "mechanisms" you reference fail and the "violation" is still worse than the consequences of breaking the law?

  4. #44
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    Re: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

    ""Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post

    Wrong. There are mechanisms in place to put those in power who we want to make our laws. We call these things elections. We have the power, directly or indirectly, to control what government does. That you can't be bothered to use those mechanisms is not the fault of the laws.

    Just like Manning had legal avenues to bring forth his allegations of misconduct, you have legal avenues to work towards change of any and every law.""


    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    And what is the legal avenue one is to take in revealing top secret information?

    When Clapper, the NSA head appeared before the Congressional Committee of Wyden and Udall, he denied the surveillance occurred within the USA or that if there was any surveillance, he could not put numerical figures on it. The PRISM information from 2007 reveals that to be an outright lie. An outright lie. Does that mean that those "mechanisms in place" are going to prosecute Clapper for PERJURY. There is no question at this time that he perjured himself before a Congressional Committee. Then you should ask yourself why he perjured himself. It's a good time to get rid of the Patriot Act.

  5. #45
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    Re: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Ending slavery was not politically possible and no amount of power or influence was going to make it so. They had to compromise on the position or end up with nothing. It was just that simple.
    They rushed the new Constitution because they were weak, and feared retribution from their many broken promises. The failures of the founding fathers were great and many, and as a result, many men suffered.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  6. #46
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    Re: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    They rushed the new Constitution because they were weak, and feared retribution from their many broken promises. The failures of the founding fathers were great and many, and as a result, many men suffered.
    Thanks for not understanding political reality.

  7. #47
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    Re: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    When Clapper, the NSA head appeared before the Congressional Committee of Wyden and Udall, he denied the surveillance occurred within the USA or that if there was any surveillance, he could not put numerical figures on it. The PRISM information from 2007 reveals that to be an outright lie. An outright lie. Does that mean that those "mechanisms in place" are going to prosecute Clapper for PERJURY. There is no question at this time that he perjured himself before a Congressional Committee. Then you should ask yourself why he perjured himself. It's a good time to get rid of the Patriot Act.
    1. You have not presented here a lie - only that he didn't have the numbers at the time, and that perhaps numbers are available.

    2. Regardless, you don't put classified data out in unclassified formats.

  8. #48
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    Re: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    Or take the opportunity to end it before it got out of control, and eventually boiled into a civil war that permanently split the nation. He had the position, influence, and power. He did nothing to end it, as they all did when writing the Constitution. They did nothing but decide that a slave was only three fifths of a human being.
    That is incorrect. They decided that the population of slaves shall not be fully counted when apportioning representation to the House of Representatives. They then took those steps that were possible to choke off and kill the slave trade, but that wouldn't destroy the nation.

  9. #49
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    Re: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    1. You have not presented here a lie - only that he didn't have the numbers at the time, and that perhaps numbers are available.

    2. Regardless, you don't put classified data out in unclassified formats.
    I presented a lie for certain. The PRISM program does quantify the data and it was ongoing before his Congressional appearance and it was his agency's program. There can be no question he perjured himself. This isn't partisan BS. This is perjury. Your gov't official lying to YOU, because the Congressional Committees are our only eyes and ears on these matters. The gov't is not trustworthy.

  10. #50
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    Re: Crazy idea. Do you agree with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I presented a lie for certain. The PRISM program does quantify the data and it was ongoing before his Congressional appearance and it was his agency's program.
    which does not mean that

    A) he carries that information at his fingertips or that
    B) he is free to divulge it in an unclassified format.

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