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Thread: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

  1. #481
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Singularity View Post
    And I answered you. A gene coding for blue eyes would not disappear from the human species even if those with blue eyes stopped reproducing.
    Not people with blue eyes, but the people with the GENE for blue eyes.

  2. #482
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Then why do Chimps do it?
    Pardon? Need more info.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  3. #483
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    The wolf example is genetic, and is explained by degrees of relation I think it is called.
    I separated this because I had to make the chimp point separately.

    This is exactly what I'm talking about regarding homosexuality. The people that are most likely to pass on the homosexual's genes are it's siblings. The degrees of relation thing supports my hypothesis (which is pretty much entirely mine. I don't ever recall hearing anyone else espousing that particular line of thought to explain homosexuality, but I'm sure I'm not the only person to do it either).

    Humans do something even stranger though. They assocate just as strongly with larger, more widespread groups than any other animal. Our intelligence makes it so that we consider ourselves things like "Patriots". Where we're willing to die for our country.

    This taps into the "altruism instinct" that is seen in animals only in closely related groups. For humans, associations can also encompass shared experiences and values associated with nationality, sports team, anything. There is a certain camaraderie from shared values that is not present in other animals because their level of cognitive complexity is so much less than ours.

  4. #484
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Pardon? Need more info.
    Chimps go to "war" with other "chimp tribes".

    Logging Sets Off an Apparent Chimp War - The New York Times

    They've also been observed to engage in rudimentary politics to gain favor and power in teh group.
    Last edited by Tucker Case; 12-02-09 at 05:42 PM.

  5. #485
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    I separated this because I had to make the chimp point separately.

    This is exactly what I'm talking about regarding homosexuality. The people that are most likely to pass on the homosexual's genes are it's siblings. The degrees of relation thing supports my hypothesis (which is pretty much entirely mine. I don't ever recall hearing anyone else espousing that particular line of thought to explain homosexuality, but I'm sure I'm not the only person to do it either).

    Humans do something even stranger though. They assocate just as strongly with larger, more widespread groups than any other animal. Our intelligence makes it so that we consider ourselves things like "Patriots". Where we're willing to die for our country.

    This taps into the "altruism instinct" that is seen in animals only in closely related groups. For humans, associations can also encompass shared experiences and values associated with nationality, sports team, anything. There is a certain camaraderie from shared values that is not present in other animals because their level of cognitive complexity is so much less than ours.
    Right, but what I am saying is this expanded "altruism instinct" is I don't think actually instinct in this case, or comes from another instinct(competition for needed sources of food?). If the former, it is a nurture aspect that mimics to an extent the "altruism instinct".
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  6. #486
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Not people with blue eyes, but the people with the GENE for blue eyes.
    And since every single individual on planet Earth carries the genes for that particular eye color in addition to the others, they would be impossible to breed out. Simply put, it would be impossible to genetically eliminate a particular eye color - in this case, blue - from being expressed, like I said.

    Genes don't really get 'bred out' of a population, anyway. They can undergo mutations and base pair changes, of course, but they don't just up and disappear. The particular oligonucleotides coding in a particular gene either get translated into proteins, or they don't. Think of it like a room with many different light switches. Turn on a certain switch, the room turns green. Turn on another, the room turns blue. In the blue-light room, the possibility of turning on a green light is there, but it isn't expressed because the blue light switch is on.
    Last edited by Singularity; 12-02-09 at 05:56 PM.

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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Chimps go to "war" with other "chimp tribes".

    Logging Sets Off an Apparent Chimp War - The New York Times

    They've also been observed to engage in rudimentary politics to gain favor and power in teh group.
    Interesting, and I suspect that does come down to instinct, the need for territory for relatives, though I would not know for sure.

    Sarah Hrdy does talk alot about apes(it is her specialty) and has some fascinating stories about them. her first field work was with some apes where the males would commit infanticide, and she talks alot about the societies apes build. She does some great writing if you have not read her books.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  8. #488
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I guess it's only okay to discriminate against them AFTER they're born.
    Can we equivocate death and discrimination on the same level?
    Discrimination in our society is a necessary thing, when done for the acceptable reasons.
    Death is so final, so cold.

  9. #489
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    First off...not a liberal here. Sorry to burst your bubble.

    Secondly, evidence has been provided on this forum in numerous places indicating that there are genetic factors that make one predisposed to homosexuality.

    So when did you "make a choice" to be straight?
    Yes, I know many a flaming liberal that prefers the demure title of "centrist."

    In any event, I haven't seen anything except specious social science that argues the idiocy of being born with homosexuality.

    This "making the choice" of straightness is silly. I can choose to lead a homosexual lifestyle -- as many do. The reason why I don't is because it is disgusting, repulsive, unnatural, and frankly, the height of moral degeneracy. Straightness is natural -- so I didn't choose to be straight. Homosexuality is unnatural, therefore one has to rebel against nature (by active choice) to lead that lifestyle. It's really not that hard.

  10. #490
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by K-1 View Post
    Yes, I know many a flaming liberal that prefers the demure title of "centrist."

    In any event, I haven't seen anything except specious social science that argues the idiocy of being born with homosexuality.

    This "making the choice" of straightness is silly. I can choose to lead a homosexual lifestyle -- as many do. The reason why I don't is because it is disgusting, repulsive, unnatural, and frankly, the height of moral degeneracy. Straightness is natural -- so I didn't choose to be straight. Homosexuality is unnatural, therefore one has to rebel against nature (by active choice) to lead that lifestyle. It's really not that hard.
    Now I am a liberal, very much so. I consider Jallman a conservative. "centrist" understates his righty leanings. Leaving aside the "flaming" aspect(which Jallman and I will share a laugh about later), calling him a liberal only is going to make any one who knows him immediately dismiss what you are saying.

    Now, you made a claim, which is that homosexuality is a choice. You got called on it, asking for a source for your claims. Wanna man up and do so?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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