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Thread: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

  1. #441
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    And considering the bulk of his arguments prior to now, I am sure you can overlook my natural lean toward suspicion of any argument he uses that has the word "defect" or anything like it present.
    Which is what makes the argument asinine.

    If you truly think Homosexuality is a “defect” then it comes with a significant advantage over most other genetic “defects”, the likelihood that it wouldn’t be “passed on”. Blind people still go into relationships that can result in reproduction, as do those who have genetic diseases, and on and on. However, by their nature, homosexuals generally engage in sexual relations that would not pass on their genes and thus not pass on that “defect”.

    So in reality, of all the potential “defects”, you’d think Homosexuality would bother him the least because it’d be the least likely to be passed on.

    The funny thing is, I don’t necessarily disagree with his GENERAL premise. That genetic homosexuality if it exists (and I believe it exists, though is not the only way one may come to that lifestyle) is likely a “defect” or more to the point simply an abnormality. Essentially a difference contrary to the basic and most standard biological function inbred in animals, mating to pass on genes. That does not necessarily mean the “defect” is a bad thing, or necessarily unnatural. Changes and abnormalities in a population can occur for legitimate reasons. Our world is continually growing, continually having resources gobbled up, with more and more being born. It could be a notion that it is an inherent genetic abnormality in some that is effectively a form of attempted population control by limiting the amount of general reproductive searching individuals into the pool.

    I don’t generally state this view because you have people like Scarecrow that take it as a means of attempting to ridicule, insult, debase, and imply the need for “fixing” the issue. In reality, I don’t think it’s a bad thing that its present in the population in a general sense nor something that should attempt to be “fixed” or “cured”. But because some people take a similar view and use it for hate attempts to reasonably discuss the potential notion sadly are rather limited as you quickly get grouped into the same group.

    Its actually nice when you can though, as a good conversation on these forums actually shifted my view from believing homosexuality was “unnatural” in a scientific sense (because it goes against the prime purpose of a species in regards to reproduction) to recognizing its found all throughout nature and that it is more likely an abnormality pertaining to certain genetic and evolutionary issues.

  2. #442
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Which is what makes the argument asinine.

    If you truly think Homosexuality is a “defect” then it comes with a significant advantage over most other genetic “defects”, the likelihood that it wouldn’t be “passed on”. Blind people still go into relationships that can result in reproduction, as do those who have genetic diseases, and on and on. However, by their nature, homosexuals generally engage in sexual relations that would not pass on their genes and thus not pass on that “defect”.

    So in reality, of all the potential “defects”, you’d think Homosexuality would bother him the least because it’d be the least likely to be passed on.

    The funny thing is, I don’t necessarily disagree with his GENERAL premise. That genetic homosexuality if it exists (and I believe it exists, though is not the only way one may come to that lifestyle) is likely a “defect” or more to the point simply an abnormality. Essentially a difference contrary to the basic and most standard biological function inbred in animals, mating to pass on genes. That does not necessarily mean the “defect” is a bad thing, or necessarily unnatural. Changes and abnormalities in a population can occur for legitimate reasons. Our world is continually growing, continually having resources gobbled up, with more and more being born. It could be a notion that it is an inherent genetic abnormality in some that is effectively a form of attempted population control by limiting the amount of general reproductive searching individuals into the pool.

    I don’t generally state this view because you have people like Scarecrow that take it as a means of attempting to ridicule, insult, debase, and imply the need for “fixing” the issue. In reality, I don’t think it’s a bad thing that its present in the population in a general sense nor something that should attempt to be “fixed” or “cured”. But because some people take a similar view and use it for hate attempts to reasonably discuss the potential notion sadly are rather limited as you quickly get grouped into the same group.

    Its actually nice when you can though, as a good conversation on these forums actually shifted my view from believing homosexuality was “unnatural” in a scientific sense (because it goes against the prime purpose of a species in regards to reproduction) to recognizing its found all throughout nature and that it is more likely an abnormality pertaining to certain genetic and evolutionary issues.
    I think that the difference is in recognizing that "anomaly" is not neccessarily a "defect". Also, the whole "evolution" argument just doesn't fly with me for a couple of other reasons. First of all, there's nothing stopping the homosexual from passing on his or her genes. Not with today's modern science even if they find the reproductive act distasteful enough to avoid. Our species isn't having trouble dominating the earth's ecology and populations so breeding really isn't the issue in our survival at this point. The homosexual may not even be a defect at all but rather an emerging third party in human sexuality and ecology. Further, evolution isn't just a genetic propagation of traits. It is also a matter of survivability and success once the genes have been passed on. The homosexual's emerging role in the survival of the species may not even be to pass genes on but to provide added care, monetary support, etc for the children of their siblings and other family members. The rise in homosexuality may just be a mechanism of population control, etc.

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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    This topic is silly. People choose to be gay, they are not born gay.

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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by K-1 View Post
    This topic is silly. People choose to be gay, they are not born gay.
    Back this assertion up?

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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Back this assertion up?
    mmmmm...

    ...


    It was his own choice?

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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by K-1 View Post
    This topic is silly. People choose to be gay, they are not born gay.
    Yeah I choose to like T&A, not.

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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by K-1 View Post
    This topic is silly. People choose to be gay, they are not born gay.
    Something that has frankly yet to be proven conclussively and personally I disagree with.

    I think people can be born inclined to be homosexual.

    I do think nurture and environment play a roll in things as well though.

    Living around an all females college for most of my younger life, and watching it even partially first hand at one point, I've seen women who had never expressed a singular notion at all of any homosexual thought suddenly just "become" bi or gay while at that college. Not "that they've always been that way" or anything of the like. In many cases within 2 or 3 years of graduation, surprises of all surprises, they were back to being a straight heterosexual woman.

    Environment can play a roll in it and can even cause it in some ways. I could fully understand say a horrendously beaten and abused women throughout all her life basically having the romantic feelings associated with males turn into a negative, harmful thing, and finding recourse in the care of another woman without the stigma.

    That said....

    I think its ridiculous to believe its all about an environment. There are guys that grow up in joe macho house, playing sports, playing with GI-Joes, living a "normal" male early and teenage life....and ends up being gay.

    How would that be environment? How could you have two people living relatively similar lives and one be gay and one be straight and conclude it MUST be environment?

    Environment, nurture, etc may have an affect, to varying levels, but I just don't see how one can honestly conclude that there is not some genetic factors involved.

  8. #448
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Something that has frankly yet to be proven conclussively and personally I disagree with.

    I think people can be born inclined to be homosexual.

    I do think nurture and environment play a roll in things as well though.

    Living around an all females college for most of my younger life, and watching it even partially first hand at one point, I've seen women who had never expressed a singular notion at all of any homosexual thought suddenly just "become" bi or gay while at that college. Not "that they've always been that way" or anything of the like. In many cases within 2 or 3 years of graduation, surprises of all surprises, they were back to being a straight heterosexual woman.

    Environment can play a roll in it and can even cause it in some ways. I could fully understand say a horrendously beaten and abused women throughout all her life basically having the romantic feelings associated with males turn into a negative, harmful thing, and finding recourse in the care of another woman without the stigma.

    That said....

    I think its ridiculous to believe its all about an environment. There are guys that grow up in joe macho house, playing sports, playing with GI-Joes, living a "normal" male early and teenage life....and ends up being gay.

    How would that be environment? How could you have two people living relatively similar lives and one be gay and one be straight and conclude it MUST be environment?

    Environment, nurture, etc may have an affect, to varying levels, but I just don't see how one can honestly conclude that there is not some genetic factors involved.
    It doesn't even have to be a genetic force that compels the homosexual. We have a sharp increase in endocrine disruptors and other chemical environmental factors that may be some of the source of the rise in homosexuality. Further, if you believe the works of Kinsey, sexuality isn't as concrete, biologically and psychologically, as our society would like to portray it.

  9. #449
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Something that has frankly yet to be proven conclussively and personally I disagree with.

    I think people can be born inclined to be homosexual.

    I do think nurture and environment play a roll in things as well though.

    Living around an all females college for most of my younger life, and watching it even partially first hand at one point, I've seen women who had never expressed a singular notion at all of any homosexual thought suddenly just "become" bi or gay while at that college. Not "that they've always been that way" or anything of the like. In many cases within 2 or 3 years of graduation, surprises of all surprises, they were back to being a straight heterosexual woman.

    Environment can play a roll in it and can even cause it in some ways. I could fully understand say a horrendously beaten and abused women throughout all her life basically having the romantic feelings associated with males turn into a negative, harmful thing, and finding recourse in the care of another woman without the stigma.

    That said....

    I think its ridiculous to believe its all about an environment. There are guys that grow up in joe macho house, playing sports, playing with GI-Joes, living a "normal" male early and teenage life....and ends up being gay.

    How would that be environment? How could you have two people living relatively similar lives and one be gay and one be straight and conclude it MUST be environment?

    Environment, nurture, etc may have an affect, to varying levels, but I just don't see how one can honestly conclude that there is not some genetic factors involved.
    Good lord Zyphlin. You bring up college lesbians and you think guys are going to even notice your point? Once most guys get to that point, they will be thinking about anything but politics...

    Edit: well, except for Jallman, but the reason for that should be obvious.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by jallman View Post
    Back this assertion up?
    The onus is not on me to back it up, the onus is on liberals to back up their foolhardy opinion that somehow homosexuality is congenital.

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