View Poll Results: Gay baby

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Thread: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

  1. #311
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    During the study period, about 12 pregnancy-related deaths occurred for every 100,000 live births.

    Prove otherwise.
    And for every 100,000 live births, 199,988--people came out of the process NOT dead.

  2. #312
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    During the study period, about 12 pregnancy-related deaths occurred for every 100,000 live births.

    Prove otherwise.
    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    And for every 100,000 live births, 199,988--people came out of the process NOT dead.
    Felicity's argument is stronger than 1069's by a factor of 16,665.66666........

  3. #313
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    And for every 100,000 live births, 199,988--people came out of the process NOT dead.
    That's some math!

  4. #314
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Normal, frequent or expectable temporary side effects of pregnancy:

    * exhaustion (weariness common from first weeks)
    * altered appetite and senses of taste and smell
    * nausea and vomiting (50% of women, first trimester)
    * heartburn and indigestion
    * constipation
    * weight gain
    * dizziness and light-headedness
    * bloating, swelling, fluid retention
    * hemmorhoids
    * abdominal cramps
    * yeast infections
    * congested, bloody nose
    * acne and mild skin disorders
    * skin discoloration (chloasma, face and abdomen)
    * mild to severe backache and strain
    * increased headaches
    * difficulty sleeping, and discomfort while sleeping
    * increased urination and incontinence
    * bleeding gums
    * pica
    * breast pain and discharge
    * swelling of joints, leg cramps, joint pain
    * difficulty sitting, standing in later pregnancy
    * inability to take regular medications
    * shortness of breath
    * higher blood pressure
    * hair loss
    * tendency to anemia
    * curtailment of ability to participate in some sports and activities
    * infection including from serious and potentially fatal disease
    (pregnant women are immune suppressed compared with non-pregnant women, and
    are more susceptible to fungal and certain other diseases)
    * extreme pain on delivery
    * hormonal mood changes, including normal post-partum depression
    * continued post-partum exhaustion and recovery period (exacerbated if a c-section -- major surgery -- is required, sometimes taking up to a full year to fully recover)

    Normal, expectable, or frequent PERMANENT side effects of pregnancy:

    * stretch marks (worse in younger women)
    * loose skin
    * permanent weight gain or redistribution
    * abdominal and vaginal muscle weakness
    * pelvic floor disorder (occurring in as many as 35% of middle-aged former child-bearers and 50% of elderly former child-bearers, associated with urinary and rectal incontinence, discomfort and reduced quality of life)
    * changes to breasts
    * varicose veins
    * scarring from episiotomy or c-section
    * other permanent aesthetic changes to the body (all of these are downplayed by women, because the culture values youth and beauty)
    * increased proclivity for hemmorhoids
    * loss of dental and bone calcium (cavities and osteoporosis)

    Occasional complications and side effects:

    * hyperemesis gravidarum
    * temporary and permanent injury to back
    * severe scarring requiring later surgery (especially after additional pregnancies)
    * dropped (prolapsed) uterus (especially after additional pregnancies, and other pelvic floor weaknesses -- 11% of women, including cystocele, rectocele, and enterocele)
    * pre-eclampsia (edema and hypertension, the most common complication of pregnancy, associated with eclampsia, and affecting 7 - 10% of pregnancies)
    * eclampsia (convulsions, coma during pregnancy or labor, high risk of death)
    * gestational diabetes
    * placenta previa
    * anemia (which can be life-threatening)
    * thrombocytopenic purpura
    * severe cramping
    * embolism (blood clots)
    * medical disability requiring full bed rest (frequently ordered during part of many pregnancies varying from days to months for health of either mother or baby)
    * diastasis recti, also torn abdominal muscles
    * mitral valve stenosis (most common cardiac complication)
    * serious infection and disease (e.g. increased risk of tuberculosis)
    * hormonal imbalance
    * ectopic pregnancy (risk of death)
    * broken bones (ribcage, "tail bone")
    * hemorrhage and
    * numerous other complications of delivery
    * refractory gastroesophageal reflux disease
    * aggravation of pre-pregnancy diseases and conditions (e.g. epilepsy is present in .5% of pregnant women, and the pregnancy alters drug metabolism and treatment prospects all the while it increases the number and frequency of seizures)
    * severe post-partum depression and psychosis
    * research now indicates a possible link between ovarian cancer and female fertility treatments, including "egg harvesting" from infertile women and donors
    * research also now indicates correlations between lower breast cancer survival rates and proximity in time to onset of cancer of last pregnancy
    * research also indicates a correlation between having six or more pregnancies and a risk of coronary and cardiovascular disease

    Less common (but serious) complications:

    * peripartum cardiomyopathy
    * cardiopulmonary arrest
    * magnesium toxicity
    * severe hypoxemia/acidosis
    * massive embolism
    * increased intracranial pressure, brainstem infarction
    * molar pregnancy, gestational trophoblastic disease (like a pregnancy-induced cancer)
    * malignant arrhythmia
    * circulatory collapse
    * placental abruption
    * obstetric fistula

    More permanent side effects:

    * future infertility
    * permanent disability
    * death.
    Fully 25% of all pregnant women experience gestational diabetes, toxemia, or preeclampsia, all of which carry the risk of permanent damage to organs, and all of which carry a risk of maternal mortality.
    In the United States alone, a total of 525 pregnancy-related deaths occurred in 1999 (the latest year for which data were available).
    Between 1991 to 1999, 4,200 deaths in the US were found to be pregnancy-related.
    During the study period, about 12 pregnancy-related deaths occurred for every 100,000 live births.
    I hardly had any of these.

    Should people never take prescrition drugs? The pharmacist gives you a sheet of paper with a list of all the complications you could get from taking the medicine. How many of these happen?

    Most pregnancies are easy and I don't think that most woman get many of these that you listed.

    Should I post of list of negative things regarding abortion.......and the post partum things woman get after having an abortion. Increases of cancer etc?

    525 deaths are unfortunate but in regard to the numbers of woman who don't die and carry the child to term, I think it's probably low.
    And how many of these deaths have to do with other diseases they might already have had.

    Did you have a source for this information or did you memorize the data?

  5. #315
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    If you weigh all the normal side effects of a healthy pregnancy against all the protective benefits of child bearing it's hard to sell the argument that pregnancy is detrimental.

    Breast cancer:

    Women who have had no children or who had their first child after age 30 have a slightly higher breast cancer risk. Having multiple pregnancies and becoming pregnant at an early age reduces breast cancer risk.
    ACS :: What Are the Risk Factors for Breast Cancer?

    Lung Cancer

    Women's reproductive behavior (having children or not) may increase their risk of lung cancer later in life, a study at the Harvard School of Public Health has found. The researchers found that women who had any children (one or more) had nearly 40 percent less risk of lung cancer as compared to women without children. That risk of lung cancer also declined in a linear fashion with increasing numbers of children born.
    Exercise, Aspirin Consumption, and Childbirth May Alter Cancer Risk

    Ovarian cancer

    Women who have never had children are more likely to develop ovarian cancer than those who have had children.
    Cancer Research and Prevention Foundation: Healthy Living - Ovarian Cancer

    Bone health

    Women who didn't have children have a 44 percent greater risk of hip fractures
    Center for Health Research - News

    So I'm not buying the whole pregnancy is "detrimental to a womens health." In a healthy pregnancy the opposite is in fact true.

  6. #316
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Should I post of list of negative things regarding abortion.......and the post partum things woman get after having an abortion. Increases of cancer etc?
    If you feel you can prove these things, be my guest.
    I, however, will counter with unbiased and empirical evidence that there is no link between abortion and cancer (including a statement to that effect issued by the American Cancer Society), that the risk of serious side effects resulting from abortion is negligible, that abortion is twelve times safer than childbirth, and that
    Post-Abortion Syndrome does not exist (and is not recognized as a legitimate disorder by the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, or any other mainstream authority).

  7. #317
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    If you weigh all the normal side effects of a healthy pregnancy against all the protective benefits of child bearing it's hard to sell the argument that pregnancy is detrimental.

    Breast cancer:

    Women who have had no children or who had their first child after age 30 have a slightly higher breast cancer risk. Having multiple pregnancies and becoming pregnant at an early age reduces breast cancer risk.
    ACS :: What Are the Risk Factors for Breast Cancer?

    Lung Cancer

    Women's reproductive behavior (having children or not) may increase their risk of lung cancer later in life, a study at the Harvard School of Public Health has found. The researchers found that women who had any children (one or more) had nearly 40 percent less risk of lung cancer as compared to women without children. That risk of lung cancer also declined in a linear fashion with increasing numbers of children born.
    Exercise, Aspirin Consumption, and Childbirth May Alter Cancer Risk

    Ovarian cancer

    Women who have never had children are more likely to develop ovarian cancer than those who have had children.
    Cancer Research and Prevention Foundation: Healthy Living - Ovarian Cancer

    Bone health

    Women who didn't have children have a 44 percent greater risk of hip fractures
    Center for Health Research - News

    So I'm not buying the whole pregnancy is "detrimental to a womens health." In a healthy pregnancy the opposite is in fact true.

  8. #318
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    If you feel you can prove these things, be my guest.
    I, however, will counter with unbiased and empirical evidence that there is no link between abortion and cancer (including a statement to that effect issued by the American Cancer Society), that the risk of serious side effects resulting from abortion is negligible, that abortion is twelve times safer than childbirth, and that
    Post-Abortion Syndrome does not exist (and is not recognized as a legitimate disorder by the American Psychiatric Association, the American Psychological Association, or any other mainstream authority).
    Been there, done that with your hero ...whaz-hiz-name...bring it on.

  9. #319
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Been there, done that with your hero ...whaz-hiz-name...bring it on.
    Well, I'll discredit the abortion/cancer link real quick, and then I really must get ready to go to the movies.
    I'll be back later tonight and address the rest.


    "Can Having an Abortion Cause or Contribute to Breast Cancer?

    Both abortion and breast cancer are topics that can bring out strong emotions in people. The issue of abortion generates passionate personal and political viewpoints, regardless of a possible disease connection. Breast cancer is the most common cancer in women, and it can be a life-threatening disease that most women fear.

    Linking these 2 topics understandably generates a great deal of emotion, as well as controversy. Research studies, however, have not found a cause-and-effect relationship between abortion and breast cancer. ...

    In February 2003, the US National Cancer Institute (NCI) convened a workshop of over 100 of the world’s leading experts who study pregnancy and breast cancer risk. The experts reviewed existing human and animal studies on the relationship between pregnancy and breast cancer risk, including studies of induced and spontaneous abortions. Among their conclusions were:

    * Breast cancer risk is temporarily increased after a term pregnancy (resulting in the birth of a living child).

    * Induced abortion is not associated with an increase in breast cancer risk.

    * Recognized spontaneous abortion is not associated with an increase in breast cancer risk.

    The level of scientific evidence for these conclusions was considered to be "well established" (the highest level).

    The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) Committee on Gynecologic Practice reviewed the available evidence as well and published its findings in August 2003. The committee concluded that "early studies of the relationship between prior induced abortion and breast cancer risk have been inconsistent and are difficult to interpret because of methodologic considerations. More rigorous recent studies argue against a causal relationship between induced abortion and a subsequent increase in breast cancer risk."

    Conclusion

    The topic of abortion and breast cancer highlights many of the most challenging aspects of studies of human populations and how those studies do or do not translate into public health guidelines. The issue of abortion generates passionate viewpoints among many people. Breast cancer is the most common cancer, and is the second leading cancer killer, in women. Still, the public is not well-served by false alarms, even when both the exposure and the disease are of great importance and interest to us all. At the present time, the scientific evidence does not support a causal association between induced abortion and breast cancer.

    References

    ACOG Committee on Gynecologic Practice. ACOG Committee Opinion. Number 285, August 2003: Induced abortion and breast cancer risk. Obstet Gynecol. 2003;102:433-435.

    Beral V, Bull D, Doll R, et al. Collaborative Group on Hormonal Factors in Breast Cancer. Breast cancer and abortion: Collaborative reanalysis of data from 53 epidemiological studies, including 83,000 women with breast cancer from 16 countries. Lancet. 2004;363:1007-1016.

    Melbye M, Wohlfahrt J, Olsen JH, et al. Induced abortion and the risk of breast cancer. N Engl J Med. 1997;336:81-5.

    National Cancer Institute. Summary Report: Early Reproductive Events and Breast Cancer Workshop. Accessed August 23, 2005.

    Revised: 09/18/2006 "


    American Cancer Society

    ************************

    ACOG Finds No Link Between Abortion and Breast Cancer Risk


    Washington, DC -- There is no evidence supporting a causal link between induced abortion and subsequent development of breast cancer, according to a committee opinion issued today by The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG). ACOG's opinion is in agreement with the conclusion reached at the National Cancer Institute's Early Reproductive Events and Breast Cancer Workshop, which met in March 2003.

    ACOG's review of the research on a link between abortion and later development of breast cancer concluded that studies on the issue were inconsistent and difficult to interpret, mainly due to study design flaws. Some studies showed either a significant decrease in breast cancer risk after abortion or found no effect. The most recent studies from China, the United Kingdom, and the US found no effect of induced abortion on breast cancer risk.

    ~~~~~~~~~~~

    The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists is the national medical organization representing over 45,000 members who provide health care for women.


    The American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists

  10. #320
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Well, I'll discredit the abortion/cancer link real quick,
    American Cancer Society
    http://www.debatepolitics.com/95352-post20.html

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