View Poll Results: Gay baby

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Thread: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

  1. #231
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I have already cast the "personhood" issue aside, so this is irrelivent.
    If you eliminate this issue, the whole abortion issue becomes irrelevant. IF it, universally, is a person, then abortion should be stopped under all circumstances. If it, universally, is not a person, then abortion can be allowed for any reason.

    You mean "She always has the right to give up her interest in {her} children....".

    We call that "abandonment", which is a form of abuse.
    Not necessarily. Adoption is not a form abuse.

    Of coase we're still talking about abortion...I'm just doing my damndist to avoide the "personhood" issue....it's proving to be almost as dificult as finding unbiased reserch on homeschooling.
    Intersting similarity, Jerry. Unfortunately, I don't see way to avoid the 'personhood' issue.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  2. #232
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I'll have you know that I'm going in a octagon, Caption: a brake-line, Felicity in a hyper-cube, and Coffee in a downward spiral.
    I'm a little slow, tonight...please explain.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #233
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    If you eliminate this issue, the whole abortion issue becomes irrelevant. IF it, universally, is a person, then abortion should be stopped under all circumstances.
    That's not the case.
    You and I are people, yet we don't have the right to inhabit (or even touch) the bodies of other people against their will, nor to extract their bodily resources without their consent, even if we need them to live.
    People, even female ones, have the right to bodily sovereignty.
    It is a fundamental human right, and women do not relinquish their human rights when they consent to sex.

  4. #234
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Hoot View Post
    Just curious...is it too late to abort Goobieman for posing this question?
    Tried hard not to laugh, but I failed, miserably.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #235
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    That's not the case.
    You and I are people, yet we don't have the right to inhabit (or even touch) the bodies of other people against their will, nor to extract their bodily resources without their consent, even if we need them to live.
    People, even female ones, have the right to bodily sovereignty.
    It is a fundamental human right, and women do not relinquish their human rights when they consent to sex.
    This is why, just as the pro-choice position does, the pro-life position brings us to a sticky quagmire. From a pro-life position, which is what my quote you responded to was aimed at, if what you say is accurate, is it allowable to murder, when the murdered has no choice to utilize the mother's resources by the very nature of pregnancy? A pro-lifer would say no, murder is murder and the unborn has no choice, by the very nature of pregnancy, to utilize the mother's body.

    Again, deciding personhood is the key component to any debate on abortion.

    My brain is starting to hurt, as I notice I am, at times posting information on either side. Shows how confusing this issue is to me. I'm going to stand down for a while, until some of the electrical impulses in my cerebal cortex get jumpstarted. Happy holidays to all. :smile:
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    From a pro-life position, which is what my quote you responded to was aimed at, if what you say is accurate, is it allowable to murder,
    Removing a person from your body or declining to allow a person to extract your bodily resources is not "murder". You have done them no injury; merely removed yourself from their vicinity. Surely that is permissable regardless of what ethical code one subscribes to.
    If in fact a fetus is "a person", there is no valid reason on earth why declining to allow it to inhabit and utilize another person's body should be considered "murder".
    People don't have the right to inhabit the bodies of other people who don't want them there, the end.
    If in fact a fetus is not a person, on the other hand, then yes, perhaps disconnecting it from your body is the equivalent of "murdering" it... but in that case a fetus isn't a person but some sort of weird parasite, so who cares?

  7. #237
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    Removing a person from your body or declining to allow a person to extract your bodily resources is not "murder".
    What a nice analogy, lets assume you are the legal guardian of a kid. Now removing that kid from your home (without the proper paperwork) or declining to allow the kid to extract resources (from your home) could land you in jail. When you are the guardian of a minor, you give up the rights not to give shelter / food to that person if receiving from nobody else.

    You have done them no injury; merely removed yourself from their vicinity. Surely that is permissable regardless of what ethical code one subscribes to.
    Then why is it a crime to "kill" this person when not performing an abortion? It doesn't matter if the condition is that the person is extracting your bodily resources. Pushing someone off a cliff is indirectly causing and is considered murder. Gravity (not extracting resources) is what kills.


    If in fact a fetus is "a person", there is no valid reason on earth why declining to allow it to inhabit and utilize another person's body should be considered "murder".
    Do you believe that aborting a baby a few days before its born and dies isn't considered murder?

    People don't have the right to inhabit the bodies of other people who don't want them there, the end.
    People also don't have the right to abandon or refuse to feed a child who is their legal guardian.

    If in fact a fetus is not a person, on the other hand, then yes, perhaps disconnecting it from your body is the equivalent of "murdering" it... but in that case a fetus isn't a person but some sort of weird parasite, so who cares?
    It has different human DNA and parasites are single celled organisms, not multi celled organisms. Few doctors would have it removed because it has parasitic properties.

    in ending, you should have been aborted so I wouldn't have to reply. :smile:

  8. #238
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by nes View Post
    What a nice analogy, lets assume you are the legal guardian of a kid. Now removing that kid from your home (without the proper paperwork) or declining to allow the kid to extract resources (from your home) could land you in jail. When you are the guardian of a minor, you give up the rights not to give shelter / food to that person if receiving from nobody else.



    Then why is it a crime to "kill" this person when not performing an abortion? It doesn't matter if the condition is that the person is extracting your bodily resources. Pushing someone off a cliff is indirectly causing and is considered murder. Gravity (not extracting resources) is what kills.




    Do you believe that aborting a baby a few days before its born and dies isn't considered murder?



    People also don't have the right to abandon or refuse to feed a child who is their legal guardian.



    It has different human DNA and parasites are single celled organisms, not multi celled organisms. Few doctors would have it removed because it has parasitic properties.
    Yes, it's all laughably simple when you take a moronically simpleminded view, isn't it?
    Except, Einstein, that there's no law saying that a "guardian" has to cram a "child" up her vagina, and then leave it there for months, now is there?
    In fact, i'm pretty sure that would be against the law.
    And there's no law saying a guardian has to "feed" a child the protein from her muscles, the iron from her blood, and the calcium from her bones and teeth.
    And there's no law saying a parent can't relinquish guardianship of a child.
    And as the biological relationship between a fetus and its host is in no way symbiotic, it is therefore a biologically parasitic relationship.
    The host derives no benefit from the relationship; all benefit is to the fetus, at the detriment of the host.
    The fetus sustains itself by extracting her bodily resources, and will continue to do so- with or without her consent- even to the detriment of her health and even, in rare cases, to her death.
    See, there's the little fact that a woman's body is not an ambulatory incubator or a "fetus-house", but a possession belonging to her, which she can choose to share or not.
    And her bodily resources are not government property, not "fetus-food", but her own bodily resources, her own personal property, which she can choose to share or not, just like a man.
    That's why even semi-intelligent prolifers like the Cap'n admit there's more to the issue than just "Abortion is Child-Murder. If you has sex (or got raped) then you deserve to lose all your human rights. The end."



    in ending, you should have been aborted so I wouldn't have to reply. :smile:
    I was born post-Roe.
    If I "should" have been aborted, then I would've been.
    Besides, if I'd been aborted, then my kids wouldn't be here now, and that's all we women are good for, isn't it? Squirting out fvck-trophies for men?

    Last edited by 1069; 12-25-06 at 11:42 AM.

  9. #239
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    1069, just so you know, I am not a pro-lifer. The abortion issue has always been difficult for me because of the conflict between the sanctity of life and the importance of self determination. This is why, whenever I participate in an abortion thread, I always find myself arguing both sides, and end up giving myself a brain cramp. When it comes right down to it, I am probably pro-choice, mostly for the reasons that you stated around the ability to self-sustain. Still, a very difficult issue.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #240
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post

    So in other words, you are saying that my analogy is perfectly acceptable to the pro-life position?
    PL is not the only abortion position which sees the forcing of one's will on another acceptable. To force a woman to abort her child is an Pro-Abortion position, not a Pro-Life position.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    A pro-lifer would not be allowed to force their will on one to prevent an abortion?
    The opposite is true.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Is the essence of pro-life, anti-choice?
    If we are speaking of a choice and not abortion per-se nor a ZEF's life, than PL is against that choice with exception to qualified circumstances; ie, Anti-Choice, as PL seeks stricter regulation on that choice.

    If we are speaking of abortion per-se its self, and not a woman's choice nor the ZEF's life, then PL is Anti-Abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Not exactly. A PC Athiest view would be that you, in that sitaution are obligated to make a choice and either choice is an acceptable one.
    I meant to show that the difference between PL and PC is more than an opposite viewpoint, but that the 2 think differently as well.

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