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Thread: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

  1. #191
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    In the unlikely event that my wife becomes pregnant by me again, and she chooses to abort it against my will, she will have forced that life, the life without raising a 3rd child, upon me.

    It would be my will to force her to bring that child to term. Pro-Choice would bar me from doing so.

    To bar me from forcing my beliefs on another is to force that belief of yours onto me, which by your own logic you have no right to do.

    PC actively enables mothers to dictate to others how they will live, which PC says no person has a right to do.
    Try this Jerry.

    In the unlikely event that my wife becomes pregnant by me again, and she chooses to keep it against my will, she will have forced that life, the life of raising a 3rd child, upon me.

    It would be my will to force her to abort that child. Pro-Life would bar me from doing so.

    To bar me from forcing my beliefs on another is to force that belief of yours onto me, which by your own logic you have no right to do.

    PL actively enables mothers to dictate to others how they will live, which PL says no person has a right to do.

    Makes sense. This is the problem with most abortion debates and why my own position on it fluctuates.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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  2. #192
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    In order to fathom that this thing in her womb is able to be "gay"--it is a foregone conclusion it is a person. If you're a male monkey that has sex with other male monkeys--you're not a "gay" monkey--animals do not have the ability to choose their behaviors dispite any sort of "orientation." PEOPLE do..and so, if she kills her "not yet born" because it will choose to possibly act on some predisposition, she chooses to kill a PERSON. Her thinking makes it so.

    I would think you relativist types would TOTALLY get this...you subscribe to "nothing is either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." I guess you believe that unless it contradicts the things you'd like to be able to do, like killing unborn humans.
    I think you confirmed what I questioned in my prior post to you. I completely agree with you and your logic here. I have a couple of red herrings, though, and feel free to dismiss them as such. Since we are discussing genes, if one decided to abort because of the discovery of the Tay-Sachs disease gene, do you believe this would be denoting personhood and be a confound to the pro-choice position?
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  3. #193
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeSaint View Post
    Really, guys, this isn't contradictory. I'm sorry if it seems that way, but it is not. The only situation that would make this contradictory is if the fetus is a person -- and I know you both see it that way, but that doesn't make it so. We can keep going round and round about fetal personhood, but we don't have any better chance to solve it here than in any of our other attempts, and without fetal personhood -- as Captain Courtesy pointed out -- there is no contradiction in the pro-choice stance.
    I know there is another thread about this. I agree that this is the issue that powers all abortion debate.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #194
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I think you confirmed what I questioned in my prior post to you. I completely agree with you and your logic here. I have a couple of red herrings, though, and feel free to dismiss them as such. Since we are discussing genes, if one decided to abort because of the discovery of the Tay-Sachs disease gene, do you believe this would be denoting personhood and be a confound to the pro-choice position?
    Although acting on a homosexual orientation is something that is a behavior choice and thus a woman aborting for "gayness" is dictating whether or not a person should live based on a potential behavior, Tay-Sachs is a disease that one cannot help but manifest and therefore the same logic can't be applied.

    Even so, I still believe that a ZEF with Tay-Sachs is a person--perhaps his mother may not, and merely considers it diseased tissue. I believe she is wrong, but working with the pro-choice logic offered here (if the pro-choice side would admit to it and accept they cannot justify killing fetus' for gayness by their own reasoning), identifying a disease is not the same as identifying a "preference."

  5. #195
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeSaint
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy


    C'mon Ya'll Give it up.... you've been going in circles for the last 100 posts!
    "I condemn the ideology of White Supremacy and Nazism. They are thugs, criminals, and repugnant, and are against what I believe to be "The American Way" "
    Thus my obligatory condemnation of White supremacy will now be in every post, lest I be accused of supporting it because I didn't mention it specifically every time I post.

  6. #196
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Caine View Post
    C'mon Ya'll Give it up.... you've been going in circles for the last 100 posts!
    Feel bad you're not invited to the party? Here have some eggnog and join in. If you'd rather not...then don't.

  7. #197
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Although acting on a homosexual orientation is something that is a behavior choice and thus a woman aborting for "gayness" is dictating whether or not a person should live based on a potential behavior, Tay-Sachs is a disease that one cannot help but manifest and therefore the same logic can't be applied.

    Even so, I still believe that a ZEF with Tay-Sachs is a person--perhaps his mother may not, and merely considers it diseased tissue. I believe she is wrong, but working with the pro-choice logic offered here (if the pro-choice side would admit to it and accept they cannot justify killing fetus' for gayness by their own reasoning), identifying a disease is not the same as identifying a "preference."
    That's the basis of our disagreement?? Oh, for the love of criminy. Allow me to remind you what thread we are having this discussion in: this is Goobieman's house. And in Goobieman's house, you are questioning the given.

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman
    Assume for a moment that homosexuality is indeed genetic.
    Assume for a moment that an unborn child is known to have that gene
    Assume for a moment that the parents do not want to take the chance that their child will be a homosexual

    It that sufficient reason to abort the unborn baby?
    Using that as a basis, I've been saying she has the right to abort for gayness if she wishes to. Assuming that homosexuality is genetic, and thus uncontrollable -- like Tay-Sachs. If you want to take this argument up with different assumptions, I would be saying that it is impossible to abort a fetus for homosexuality; by the time you know he or she is a homosexual, he or she has already been born.

    I think we should all just agree to take Caine's suggestion and let this go now. Merry Christmas.

  8. #198
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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeSaint View Post
    Using that as a basis, I've been saying she has the right to abort for gayness if she wishes to. Assuming that homosexuality is genetic, and thus uncontrollable -- like Tay-Sachs.
    So this gene causes babies to go on a wild gay hump-fest? I doubt it. You can be "oriented" toward homosexuality without ACTING on it. You CANNOT be oriented toward Tay-Sachs and not have it manifest in your life. You could be a carrier, I guess, but...I don't think that's what CC was talking about. GAYNESS isn't a disease, anyway.
    Merry Christmas.
    Same to you and yours!

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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    I doubt it. You can be "oriented" toward homosexuality without ACTING on it.
    This is unrealistic, IMO.

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    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1069 View Post
    This is unrealistic, IMO.
    That doesn't suprise me...I'm getting a pretty clear picture of your view of human nature, and it's not very complimentary.

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