View Poll Results: Gay baby

Voters
111. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    51 45.95%
  • No

    60 54.05%
Page 18 of 65 FirstFirst ... 8161718192028 ... LastLast
Results 171 to 180 of 647

Thread: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

  1. #171
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Upon rereading this thead, I have found a fatal flaw that perhaps no one else has noticed. The OP has created (as I said earlier) quite an ingenious question, one that tests the consistency of one's values. However, it is in the following post that the flaw is committed:



    It is here that the yet to be born is considered a life or a person. This is a position that pro-choicers do not adhere to. Therefore chosing how this, yet to be born, is to live it's life is fallacious to the pro-choice position, and, therefore, is irrelevant. It is, therefore, completely consistent for one on the pro-choice side to state that it is OK to abort for the reason stated in the OP, as there is no lifestyle to live.
    In the unlikely event that my wife becomes pregnant by me again, and she chooses to abort it against my will, she will have forced that life, the life without raising a 3rd child, upon me.

    It would be my will to force her to bring that child to term. Pro-Choice would bar me from doing so.

    To bar me from forcing my beliefs on another is to force that belief of yours onto me, which by your own logic you have no right to do.

    PC actively enables mothers to dictate to others how they will live, which PC says no person has a right to do.

  2. #172
    Educator
    CoffeeSaint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Wherever there is caffeine, I'll be there.
    Last Seen
    07-01-07 @ 09:30 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    1,088

    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    In the unlikely event that my wife becomes pregnant by me again, and she chooses to abort it against my will, she will have forced that life, the life without raising a 3rd child, upon me.

    It would be my will to force her to bring that child to term. Pro-Choice would bar me from doing so.

    To bar me from forcing my beliefs on another is to force that belief of yours onto me, which by your own logic you have no right to do.

    PC actively enables mothers to dictate to others how they will live, which PC says no person has a right to do.
    You should not be able to dictate how your wife lives her life. Her choice does not dictate that you will have to live without raising a third child; you have the option of divorcing her and marrying another person who will give you the desired child. So no, nobody is forcing this life upon you.

    Inasmuch as we would bar you from forcing your views on another, yes, that is a limitation of your choices. But it is not a hypocritical one, as the enitre argument is based on the idea that your wish to control another is not right and should not be allowed. That is the main situation in which a person's choices should be limited: when your choices affect another person.

  3. #173
    Educator
    CoffeeSaint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Wherever there is caffeine, I'll be there.
    Last Seen
    07-01-07 @ 09:30 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    1,088

    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    Abortion is allowed at any point in pregnancy. Some on this thread are making a distinction at the age of the fetus. That isn't the question--the question is: is it is a "good enough" reason to abort a baby simply because she has hypothetical "gay gene".

    Your "yet to be born" WILL live if not aborted. As jallman stated, the intention of the mother is the determiner of the personhood at the pre-viable stage. If a woman chooses to base her decision to abort on the "lifestyle" (I personally hate that term) the child will live--has she not already decided the personhood of her "yet to be born?" And then--isn't she dictating to another how he/she should live? Yes--she chooses he/she should NOT live due to the "person" he or she is.
    She isn't doing so if she doesn't see the fetus as a child/person; I would think that if she did see the fetus as a child/person then she would not have the abortion.

    However, it is her choice, not mine; since in my view she does not harm another person by her actions, then I will not stand in her way. Whether I approve of her actions or not is irrelevant. Her actions are not those that I think worthy of censure, since she is not telling another person how to live, IMO.

    I'm not sure it would be a contradiction even if I did believe she was harming another person; it would become a question of personal responsibility. I don't take drugs, because I think they are harmful and stupid; does that mean I must now go fight a war on drugs in order to live up to my beliefs? Or should I just take care of my own life, and perhaps try to influence others to act as I do? Am I a hypocrite if I allow others to live as I would not, so long as I don't act that way myself? I don't see how.

  4. #174
    Sage
    jamesrage's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    A place where common sense exists
    Last Seen
    12-10-17 @ 09:23 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Slightly Conservative
    Posts
    31,067

    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Goobieman View Post
    Assume for a moment that homosexuality is indeed genetic.
    Assume for a moment that an unborn child is known to have that gene
    Assume for a moment that the parents do not want to take the chance that their child will be a homosexual

    It that sufficient reason to abort the unborn baby?



    Someone please add a Yes/No poll
    I voted no.I am against abortion unless it is to save the life of the mother(meaning she went to a real doctor to have this verified not subhuman scum abortionist rat)
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

  5. #175
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-06-09 @ 03:03 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    11,946

    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeSaint View Post
    She isn't doing so if she doesn't see the fetus as a child/person; I would think that if she did see the fetus as a child/person then she would not have the abortion.
    In order to fathom that this thing in her womb is able to be "gay"--it is a foregone conclusion it is a person. If you're a male monkey that has sex with other male monkeys--you're not a "gay" monkey--animals do not have the ability to choose their behaviors dispite any sort of "orientation." PEOPLE do..and so, if she kills her "not yet born" because it will choose to possibly act on some predisposition, she chooses to kill a PERSON. Her thinking makes it so.

    I would think you relativist types would TOTALLY get this...you subscribe to "nothing is either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." I guess you believe that unless it contradicts the things you'd like to be able to do, like killing unborn humans.
    Last edited by Felicity; 12-23-06 at 02:29 PM.

  6. #176
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    United States
    Last Seen
    01-21-16 @ 12:21 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    51,124

    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeSaint View Post
    You should not be able to dictate how your wife lives her life.
    But she gets to dictate such things to me.

    That's hypocrisy.

    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeSaint View Post
    Her choice does not dictate that you will have to live without raising a third child;
    Not any 3rd. child, that 3rd. child, with her as it's mom and my wife, in that intact home with those brothers.

    That life she would have forced me not to have.

    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeSaint View Post
    you have the option of divorcing her and marrying another person who will give you the desired child.
    Aside from the fact that I am honor bound by my word before God to never divorce her except when there is adultery or abuse, divorce would only make matters worse for the family....and in fact I would only be raising the first 2 part time, having no control over if and whom she choose to date, what men she brings into and out of my sons life’s from that point on, etc.

    Also, as above.

    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeSaint View Post
    So no, nobody is forcing this life upon you.
    Obviously this is not true, as she would have denied me the life of raising that 3rd. child along with her, with her as the mom and my wife in our intact marriage.

    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeSaint View Post
    Inasmuch as we would bar you from forcing your views on another, yes, that is a limitation of your choices.
    ...hypocrisy, your own logic says that you can not limit another's choices, that would be Anti-Choice, not Pro-Choice....so you have no ground to limit my choice to enforce my will upon another.

    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeSaint View Post
    But it is not a hypocritical one, as the enitre argument is based on the idea that your wish to control another is not right and should not be allowed.
    By PC logic you have no right to make such "bigoted judgments" about another person's choice "which does not directly affect you", so whether or not you agree with my choice, it remains a choice which I am as entitled to execute as a woman is entitled to execute a choice of her own.

    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeSaint View Post
    That is the main situation in which a person's choices should be limited: when your choices affect another person.
    Then my wife's ability to choose should be limited, in my hypothetical situation, as her choice would have a direct negative affect on me and our family.

  7. #177
    Educator
    CoffeeSaint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Wherever there is caffeine, I'll be there.
    Last Seen
    07-01-07 @ 09:30 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    1,088

    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    In order to fathom that this thing in her womb is able to be "gay"--it is a foregone conclusion it is a person. If you're a male monkey that has sex with other male monkeys--you're not a "gay" monkey--animals do not have the ability to choose their behaviors dispite any sort of "orientation." PEOPLE do..and so, if she kills her "not yet born" because it will choose to possibly act on some predisposition, she chooses to kill a PERSON. Her thinking makes it so.
    It does. And then, when this homophobe discovers that her child is to be gay, her thinking makes it NOT a person -- which is, I assume, why she aborts it. If she still thought of the fetus as a person, I presume she would not kill it.

    I do not believe that people who would choose abortions for eugenic reasons, as this poll describes, are those who see the person with "bad" qualities as fully human. Hence the abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    I would think you relativist types would TOTALLY get this...you subscribe to "nothing is either good or bad, but thinking makes it so." I guess you believe that unless it contradicts the things you'd like to be able to do, like killing unborn humans.
    If thinking makes it so, then thinking it is not so makes it not so. No contradiction there. It is only you absolute types who hold that an action once taken cannot be undone.

  8. #178
    Banned
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Last Seen
    10-06-09 @ 03:03 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    11,946

    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by CoffeeSaint View Post
    It does. And then, when this homophobe discovers that her child is to be gay, her thinking makes it NOT a person -- which is, I assume, why she aborts it. If she still thought of the fetus as a person, I presume she would not kill it.

    I do not believe that people who would choose abortions for eugenic reasons, as this poll describes, are those who see the person with "bad" qualities as fully human. Hence the abortion.



    If thinking makes it so, then thinking it is not so makes it not so. No contradiction there. It is only you absolute types who hold that an action once taken cannot be undone.
    If it becomes "not so" then there is no reason to abort. See the problem here?

  9. #179
    Educator
    CoffeeSaint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Wherever there is caffeine, I'll be there.
    Last Seen
    07-01-07 @ 09:30 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    1,088

    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    But she gets to dictate such things to me.

    That's hypocrisy.
    Not at all. Your will does not give you the authority to override her will, and that's where your rights break down. Same as in every situation. Your rights end where hers begin.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Not any 3rd. child, that 3rd. child, with her as it's mom and my wife, in that intact home with those brothers.

    That life she would have forced me not to have.
    That life, because it involves the free will of another person, is not one you have a right to.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Aside from the fact that I am honor bound by my word before God to never divorce her except when there is adultery or abuse, divorce would only make matters worse for the family....and in fact I would only be raising the first 2 part time, having no control over if and whom she choose to date, what men she brings into and out of my sons life’s from that point on, etc.
    And there are your choices: live with her and your two children, keeping your word of honor, or break your word of honor and seek out another mother for your third child. But your word of honor, and your life choices, do not get to limit hers, and so you do not have a right you are losing if she chooses not to share in your vision of the future of your family.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Obviously this is not true, as she would have denied me the life of raising that 3rd. child along with her, with her as the mom and my wife in our intact marriage.
    Yes, a situation you have no right to demand.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    ...hypocrisy, your own logic says that you can not limit another's choices, that would be Anti-Choice, not Pro-Choice....so you have no ground to limit my choice to enforce my will upon another.
    Nonsense. My logic states that you have no right to enforce your will on her, and so if she does not allow you to enforce your will on her, she is protecting her own rights. She is not infringing on yours, as you do not have the right you are presuming to have.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    By PC logic you have no right to make such "bigoted judgments" about another person's choice "which does not directly affect you", so whether or not you agree with my choice, it remains a choice which I am as entitled to execute as a woman is entitled to execute a choice of her own.
    I would not have anything to do with this. She has the right not to allow your choices to affect hers. Her life choices could not be allowed to affect your life choices when those life choices do not infringe on the rights of another. That's the distinction here. She could not, for instance, force you to give up your job, or end all contact with your parents just because she wants you to. Those are your choices that do not infringe on her rights, and you have the right to protect yourself from another's attempts to control you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Then my wife's ability to choose should be limited, in my hypothetical situation, as her choice would have a direct negative affect on me and our family.
    If she does not see it as a negative impact, who am I to tell her she is wrong? Who are you? You can tell her it is negative in your view, but you cannot force her to accept your view if hers is different.


    Really, guys, this isn't contradictory. I'm sorry if it seems that way, but it is not. The only situation that would make this contradictory is if the fetus is a person -- and I know you both see it that way, but that doesn't make it so. We can keep going round and round about fetal personhood, but we don't have any better chance to solve it here than in any of our other attempts, and without fetal personhood -- as Captain Courtesy pointed out -- there is no contradiction in the pro-choice stance.

  10. #180
    Educator
    CoffeeSaint's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Wherever there is caffeine, I'll be there.
    Last Seen
    07-01-07 @ 09:30 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    1,088

    Re: Is it OK to abort a gay baby?

    Quote Originally Posted by Felicity View Post
    If it becomes "not so" then there is no reason to abort. See the problem here?
    No, I don't. As I said, there doesn't need to be a reason to abort past the woman's decision to do so. It matters not at all if her reasoning is illogical or contradictory to you, or to me; she has the freedom to be stupid.

Page 18 of 65 FirstFirst ... 8161718192028 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •