View Poll Results: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

Voters
13. You may not vote on this poll
  • YES!

    3 23.08%
  • NO!

    7 53.85%
  • Just desserts?

    2 15.38%
  • What goes around, comes around?

    5 38.46%
Multiple Choice Poll.
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 43

Thread: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

  1. #21
    Sage
    cpwill's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    USofA
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:30 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    57,148

    Re: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

    1. There were good reasons why we chose Panama rather than Nicaragua for a canal in the first place (those were the two competing original ideas).

    2. China is about to go through some fairly painful internal economic restructuring.

    3. The likelihood of this being connected to Iran-Contra is..... very, very, low.

  2. #22
    Sage
    Sherman123's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Northeast US
    Last Seen
    11-23-17 @ 11:12 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    7,774

    Re: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013...a-panama-canal "Nicaragua has awarded a Chinese company a 100-year concession to build an alternative to the Panama Canal, in a step that looks set to have profound geopolitical ramifications." "Nicaragua's president, Daniel Ortega, said recently that the new channel would be built through the waters of Lake Nicaragua.
    The new route will be a higher-capacity alternative to the 99-year-old Panama Canal, which is currently being widened at the cost of $5.2bn.
    Last year, the Nicaraguan government noted that the new canal should be able to allow passage for mega-container ships with a dead weight of up to 250,000 tonnes. This is more than double the size of the vessels that will be able to pass through the Panama Canal after its expansion, it said.
    According to a bill submitted to congress last year, Nicaragua's canal will be 22 metres deep and 286 km (178 miles) long - bigger than Panama and Suez in all dimensions." Is this the same Daniel Ortega that Reagan/Bush tried to eliminate? USA interests have talked about a canal here for years, but couldn't develop enough trust to make a deal? Will nefarious forces try to sabotage this deal?
    No. This is a rushed development proposal that will likely never come to fruition. However if you could actually get the Chinese to foot a large part of the bill in exchange for a significant stake in the canal you could accomplish a great deal and it would be foolish not to explore the opportunity. Ortega has been somewhat of a pragmatist since he came to power he's been talking with China, with prominent free market venture capitalists, and western governments in an effort to accelerate the inflow of investment and growth.

    Conspiracy and intrigue are (as usual) unnecessary explanations.

  3. #23
    Guru
    Cyrylek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Boston
    Last Seen
    02-05-17 @ 01:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    3,467

    Re: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    I am impressed at how easily China is marginalizing the US....
    Considering that the US would be the main beneficiary of added shipping capacities here, it is hardly the question of "marginalization". If this is a real thing, not a publicity stunt and/or a scam, what is the downside? The Chinese are going to undertake an extremely risky and difficult project, and - with little effort of our own - we are going to get another passage from the Gulf of Mexico to the Pacific. The profits of railroads in the West may suffer, but it will be a boon for the American economy at large.

    Unfortunately, it does look exactly like a publicity stunt/scam, and my prediction is that nothing will come out of it (except for a couple of billions stolen by the ex-Sandinista officials and ruined ecosystems - in the good tradition of post-Marxist governing)

  4. #24
    Iconoclast
    DaveFagan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    wny
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:21 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    7,312

    Re: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    No. This is a rushed development proposal that will likely never come to fruition. However if you could actually get the Chinese to foot a large part of the bill in exchange for a significant stake in the canal you could accomplish a great deal and it would be foolish not to explore the opportunity. Ortega has been somewhat of a pragmatist since he came to power he's been talking with China, with prominent free market venture capitalists, and western governments in an effort to accelerate the inflow of investment and growth.

    Conspiracy and intrigue are (as usual) unnecessary explanations.
    The Chinese are "doers" and get things done. They have an OIL deal with Cuba and another with Venezuela and today's supertankers are too wide for the Panama Canal. That alone is enough motivation and financial incentive to finish a canal in Nicaragua. Ortega is never likely to trust USA again and justifiably so. It is a natural "you scratch my back, I'll scratch yours" business opportunity with huge benefits for both sides. I see big interference and roadblocks by Western interests to stop this or gum up the works in my crystal ball. And, I repeat that it uses up some of that surplus of USDollars molding in Chinese vaults.

  5. #25
    User
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Boston, MA
    Last Seen
    08-03-13 @ 10:16 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    38

    Re: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

    Hey, it's just free market capitalism! 'Merica should love to see the rest of the world create competition.

  6. #26
    Guru
    Cyrylek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Boston
    Last Seen
    02-05-17 @ 01:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    3,467

    Re: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    . Ortega has been somewhat of a pragmatist since he came to power he's been talking with China.
    Pragmatism of China is even more impressive, if this is real: Nicaragua recognizes Taiwan, not the People's Republic, as "China". Beijing has no embassy in Managua.

  7. #27
    Guru
    Cyrylek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Boston
    Last Seen
    02-05-17 @ 01:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    3,467

    Re: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I see big interference and roadblocks by Western interests to stop this or gum up the works in my crystal ball.
    How exactly the "Western interests" would suffer from the Nicaragua Canal?

  8. #28
    Guru
    Cyrylek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Boston
    Last Seen
    02-05-17 @ 01:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    3,467

    Re: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    The likelihood of this being connected to Iran-Contra is..... very, very, low.
    Yes. This is not 1982. The political descendants of the Contras have got more votes in 2006 than Ortega: he was elected by plurality, and although there was creeping "Chavezation" since then, he is not a dictator this time around, and making major decisions out of pure vengeance is not an option. The government's point man on the project, Edén Pastora, was a Contra fighter at some point:

    Edén Pastora - Wikipedia, la enciclopedia libre

    There's one issue however that is probably much under discussion in Managua right now: The canal would cut, by necessity, through the coastal lands populated by the Miskito Indians - the old foe of Sandinistas - and other indigenous groups. I doubt anyone wants to reignite passions there.

  9. #29
    Guru
    Cyrylek's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Boston
    Last Seen
    02-05-17 @ 01:49 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    3,467

    Re: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

    In Nicaragua itself, the general reaction to the news seems to be confusion. To quote La Prensa, "Nada claro":


    Desconfían de cifras de Canal. La Prensa

  10. #30
    Iconoclast
    DaveFagan's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    wny
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:21 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    7,312

    Re: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    How exactly the "Western interests" would suffer from the Nicaragua Canal?

    This creates competition for Western Big Energy interests, and that is Big Energy with enough power and influence to get two wars fought for OIL resources in the Mideast, and those would be western interests. Get your crystal ball cleaned.

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •