View Poll Results: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

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  • YES!

    3 23.08%
  • NO!

    7 53.85%
  • Just desserts?

    2 15.38%
  • What goes around, comes around?

    5 38.46%
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Thread: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

  1. #11
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    Re: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I have an acquaintance that has been associated with a group trying to get a Canal across Nicaragua for twenty years. No joy. If some country had been arming and supporting insurgents/rebels/terrorists in your Country, would you do any business with them?
    I doubt they would be selling their country out to US investors even if this had not been the case. I think it is a smart move on their part to retain control independent of the history of the parties. China is so well positioned and directed economically going forward, I would not be surprised to see the US no longer considered a leader in the world in my lifetime. I am impressed at how easily China is marginalizing the US and saddened by how the US would rather be petulant "but, but.....They're commies and we have a big military so stick with us" than actually show leadership on its own.

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    Re: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    They may be biting off more than they can chew in a jungle environment. This could be their 25 year bridge to nowhere.
    Maybe, it certainly was too much for the French and Americans who decided to instead go to Panama. I think its not a question of ability to do it, throw enough resources and money at the problem and it will be solved, but depending on the analysis by the Chinese firm it may decide the juice aint worth the squeeze.

  3. #13
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    Re: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fisher View Post
    I doubt they would be selling their country out to US investors even if this had not been the case. I think it is a smart move on their part to retain control independent of the history of the parties. China is so well positioned and directed economically going forward, I would not be surprised to see the US no longer considered a leader in the world in my lifetime. I am impressed at how easily China is marginalizing the US and saddened by how the US would rather be petulant "but, but.....They're commies and we have a big military so stick with us" than actually show leadership on its own.
    I think it reflects the "money trap" position that the USA has put itself in. Corporate USA is also heavily invested in China and it is another kind of trap altogether. We will be "paying the piper" sooner than we would like to think. China is holding trillions of dollars of our paper and they did not allow themselves to be trapped like the Japanese in the 1980s. We've have and have had piss poor leadership since Jimmy Carter, and maybe even before that. I guess it started when Nixon defaulted on the Bretton Woods agreement.

  4. #14
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    Re: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Maybe, it certainly was too much for the French and Americans who decided to instead go to Panama. I think its not a question of ability to do it, throw enough resources and money at the problem and it will be solved, but depending on the analysis by the Chinese firm it may decide the juice aint worth the squeeze.

    $100,000 per ship plus a strategic advantage. I think it will be both profitable and a free military strategic option, so even if it didn't profit, it could be considered a good investment for China. Also, they have probably agreed to pay for this with USDollars of which they have trillions to try to turn into something useful. I'm not of the opinion that having trillions of USDollars sitting around is a good thing. Bush dropped the value of the dollar from 120 to 80 and maybe it will drop more meaning that a vault full of USDollars would be losing money. The Chinese are not stupid.

  5. #15
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    Re: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveFagan View Post
    I think it will start a price war. As is, I think the cost of moving a ship through the Panama Canal exceeds $100,000 USD. It will also give strategic control of that shipping to China. The slippery Panamanian banks established by Noriega and the CIA might be affected, or not. Will the CIA send in insurgents from Guatemala and Panama? Does a cat have an ass?
    All I know is that Ortega won't be president forever, and the US always manages to get their way by any means, whether those means be necessary or not.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    Re: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

    Some one is reaching if they think this has anything to do with Reagan and Bush. What did you think they'd hire an American unionized company working under OSHA and the EPA? The Chicoms can do this in 11-12 years, bury the 6,000 dead workers without a lawsuit, and kill all the critters, bushes and trees they want. American lawyers would have made this impossible in 25 years at triple the cost. Don't believe me look at the bay bridge in SF where union workers make $275 AN HOUR.

  7. #17
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    Re: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    If China can do anything, its grand scale engineering projects.
    The more idiotic - the better?

    I don't blame Daniel Ortega - he is just another mindless thug raised on a steady diet of the bottled-in-Moscow Kool-Aid (many-many people dig big hole - good), but what about those supposedly oh-so-professional party-bureaucracy Mandarins? Do they really hope to see any return on their investment here?

    Looks like a scam - or, rather, like an element of some complicated internal Chinese intrigue we cannot begin to understand.

  8. #18
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    Re: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    All I know is that Ortega won't be president forever, and the US always manages to get their way by any means, whether those means be necessary or not.
    No, Ortega won't, but according to the report the concession will last 100 years.

  9. #19
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    Re: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by sawyerloggingon View Post
    They may be biting off more than they can chew in a jungle environment. This could be their 25 year bridge to nowhere.
    If the Chinese pay Nicaragua for the rights, I wouldn't bet against them pulling it off and making it pay, even if it means making a billion shovels.

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    Re: Is this blowback from Iran/Contra by Reagan/Bush?

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyrylek View Post
    The more idiotic - the better?

    I don't blame Daniel Ortega - he is just another mindless thug raised on a steady diet of the bottled-in-Moscow Kool-Aid (many-many people dig big hole - good), but what about those supposedly oh-so-professional party-bureaucracy Mandarins? Do they really hope to see any return on their investment here?

    Looks like a scam - or, rather, like an element of some complicated internal Chinese intrigue we cannot begin to understand.
    I think they are serious, the idea of a Nicaraguan canal has been around for a hundred years and the bigger the ships get and the more crowded the Panama Canal gets the more it will look profitable. I imagine the project is backed by the Chinese government fisically, typically governments are the only organizations with the kind of money and patience to undergo a project like this which even if they started today may not be up and running for a decade.

    Of course they haven't started blasting away mountains yet, but once they are done scouting it out I beleive they'll make that decision.

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