• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

For Conservatives: Religion and Valedictorian speechs [W:83]

Would you have an issue with a valedictorian reading the Call to Prayer

  • No, I'd have no problem at all.

    Votes: 14 43.8%

  • No. I'd not like it, but I wouldn't take issue with it.

    Votes: 9 28.1%

  • Yes, I don't think a public education ceremony is the right venue.

    Votes: 5 15.6%

  • Yes, I don't think it should be done because the crowd/state/nation is primarily Christian

    Votes: 1 3.1%

  • Yes, because I think it's offensive

    Votes: 2 6.3%

  • Yes, because I think it's unconstitutional

    Votes: 2 6.3%
  • Total voters
    32
Knowledge=power said:
If you are referring to teaching evolution over the creation story, that is an entirely different discussion and has already been discussed ad nauseum on these boards.

Oh, and btw, that's ridiculous.
Click to expand...


FYI the guy is a young Earther
 
soot said:
Fair enough. Sorry for my role in the derailment.

While I hold a lot of conservative positions religion isn't one of them. I'm more agnostic than anything else, but I don't even take that all too seriously.

In respect to the OP, I wouldn't be all that offended hearing an Islamic call to prayer at a commencement. Likewise, I wouldn't be offended by a Christian or Jewish prayer. I wouldn't be offended if some not-as-smart-as-he-thinks-he-is kid started going of on some demon/devil worship tirade, or hearing a wiccan incantation, or a diatribe on scientific materialisim.

The bottom line is that sitting in on a commencement ceremony or convocation is going to suck ass no matter what you hear there, and it's likely going to be hot, and you're going to wish you were elsewhere doing other things.

It's bad enough that I have to sit through a B-list celebrity being witty and a 20-year-old kid explaining to me how HIS graduating class has an obligation to make the world a better place. Hearing a prayer isn't going to make it any worse.
Click to expand...

I would be prayin' for a cooler full of hurt-your-hand-cold coors light.
 
Ray410 said:
If you go by the posts in this forum, nobody feels the need to be heard more than the endlessly shrieking atheists.
Click to expand...

At least they do it on a debate forum instead of at public events.
 
The opposition to religion in school is little more than a proxy political war by liberals on conservatives. I went to a private school that was multi-cultural that allowed Jews to be Jews, Muslims to Muslims, Christians to be Christians, Atheists to be Atheists including meal menus that were completely respectful of all faiths having an assortment with the menu items marked Kosher, vegetarian, etc. If anyone respected the right of people to believe, they would advocate for policies of inclusion, not one of exclusion that suspends people for wearing a Saint Christopher or cross or Star of David or mentioning "God". One simply cannot claim to be for diversity, tolerance, etc and support policies that punish that with any degree of intellectual honesty.
 
Fisher said:
The opposition to religion in school is little more than a proxy political war by liberals on conservatives. I went to a private school that was multi-cultural that allowed Jews to be Jews, Muslims to Muslims, Christians to be Christians, Atheists to be Atheists including meal menus that were completely respectful of all faiths having an assortment with the menu items marked Kosher, vegetarian, etc. If anyone respected the right of people to believe, they would advocate for policies of inclusion, not one of exclusion that suspends people for wearing a Saint Christopher or cross or Star of David or mentioning "God". One simply cannot claim to be for diversity, tolerance, etc and support policies that punish that with any degree of intellectual honesty.
Click to expand...

Obviously, schools like that are ideal - but unfortunately, not all people are that tolerant.
 
Knowledge=power said:
No one is squelching your rights... :roll:

It's a matter of respect and consideration for others. If you are at a public event, just pray to yourself or read your bible silently. God can still hear you :peace
Click to expand...

Do you apply the same restrictions to other speech? Should anti war protesters be expected to protest quietly so as to not offend or inconvenience those who disagree with them?
 
Moon said:
Do you apply the same restrictions to other speech? Should anti war protesters be expected to protest quietly so as to not offend or inconvenience those who disagree with them?
Click to expand...


Are they doing this at a High School graduatio?
 
Knowledge=power said:
Wouldn't a very simple solution be to just pray before or after the ceremony?

Why do people, of any faith, feel the need to be heard when they pray or read scripture?
Click to expand...

I think most of them think that if everyone doesn't see them doing it, it doesn't count.

As for the OP, I'm not conservative, but I would prefer nobody of any religion conduct their religious business during school ceremonies. I don't however think it should be criminal.
 
For Conservatives: Religion and Valedictorian speechs

Knowledge=power said:
No one is squelching your rights... :roll:

It's a matter of respect and consideration for others. If you are at a public event, just pray to yourself or read your bible silently. God can still hear you :peace
Click to expand...

Why not respectfully listen to the prayer, as you would any other part of the speech with which you may not agree?Should people fill out cards prior to speeches so that speakers can review them and edit out all subject matter that the audience does not wish to hear?
 
Zyphlin said:
Referencing THIS story.

A question for Conservatives.

If a Valedictorian in a south carolina school decided to rip up their speech and instead read the islamic Call to Prayer, would you have an issue with that? If so, what would the reason for your taking issue with it?
Click to expand...

I said no, I'd have no problem with it, but I'd qualify that by saying provided he/she cleared it with the graduating class first - I would no more want a selfish display of religion against the students' wishes than I would want a selfish display of political commentary - this is a ceremony for the kids - as long as the kids don't object, the teachers/administrators should stay out of it.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
We are tired of our rights being squelched.
Click to expand...

What do you mean? Be specific and please give comparative examples regarding other religions. If you are tired of it, it must happen a lot. Other religions must be getting a great deal more favoritism by something or somebody and it must be happening quite a bit. Who and how and how often?
 
Moon said:
I was speaking in more general terms, but what does it matter?
Click to expand...

The OP specifically addresses the commencement address at a high school graduation. It is within that context that people are discussing the matter of public expression of faith. In this instance the topic is rather narrow. As such, speaking in general terms has little bearing on the OP.
 
Risky Thicket said:
The OP specifically addresses the commencement address at a high school graduation. It is within that context that people are discussing the matter of public expression of faith. In this instance the topic is rather narrow. As such, speaking in general terms has little bearing on the OP.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input.
 
Honestly as a student I would be rather annoyed. These speeches are supposed to be remember high school times and what the school has meet to the graduating class, not some religious prayer, no matter what religion it is.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
I can assure you, they do. Not to mention they blast the theories in school as well which is actually worse than what happened in this instance.
Click to expand...

Actually, On the Origin of Species is free on IBooks because no one would pay to read it on an IPhone. I am an Atheist living in a predominantly Atheist community and I don't know a single person that has read On the Origin Of Species or any of Darwin's other work more than fifty pages through, but many Christians have read the entire Bible at least once and seen or hunted individual quotes. We don't gather in unholy places to praise the theory of evolution any more than any other scientific theory.

We blast evolution in schools because it is the only answer to how life was created that has proof to back it up. It was a scientific breakthrough like the discovery of how the flow of electrons causes static electricity and that electricity is what lightning is made of. Teaching Creationism in school is like teaching that the world is flat, it just doesn't fit what we know any more. There is much more evidence indicating that evolution is how all the life on Earth became so diverse than just saying that God did it.

I'm not saying schools shouldn't teach that God may or may not have started the ball rolling and in his subtlety used evolution to create diversity, but we need to incorporate what we know into education. That's why it's called education, not studies in ignorance of reality to fit our favourite book into every facet of our lives.

There are some fallacies between what the Bible says and what we know, and logic dictates that we at adopt the choice that is supported by factual evidence.
 
Indeed said:
Actually, On the Origin of Species is free on IBooks because no one would pay to read it on an IPhone. I am an Atheist living in a predominantly Atheist community and I don't know a single person that has read On the Origin Of Species or any of Darwin's other work more than fifty pages through, but many Christians have read the entire Bible at least once and seen or hunted individual quotes. We don't gather in unholy places to praise the theory of evolution any more than any other scientific theory.

We blast evolution in schools because it is the only answer to how life was created that has proof to back it up. It was a scientific breakthrough like the discovery of how the flow of electrons causes static electricity and that electricity is what lightning is made of. Teaching Creationism in school is like teaching that the world is flat, it just doesn't fit what we know any more. There is much more evidence indicating that evolution is how all the life on Earth became so diverse than just saying that God did it.

I'm not saying schools shouldn't teach that God may or may not have started the ball rolling and in his subtlety used evolution to create diversity, but we need to incorporate what we know into education. That's why it's called education, not studies in ignorance of reality to fit our favourite book into every facet of our lives.

There are some fallacies between what the Bible says and what we know, and logic dictates that we at adopt the choice that is supported by factual evidence.
Click to expand...

Christians do teach micro-evolution to explain some diversity. But there is not evidence for macro-evolution no matter how hard scientists try to "prove" there is. Just like there is no "missing link"
 
Knowledge=power said:
Obviously, it's legal. But in many cases, it is inconsiderate - such as this one. There are people of different faiths in attendance at public gatherings, and people who just don't want to hear it. Either way, the issue could very simply be avoided if people would just keep it to themselves, or in the church.
Click to expand...

The whole issue could just as easily be avoided if people like you just STFU.

There are plenty of people who don't want to hear what you have to say in this forum but you have 1,040 just the same.
 
Moon said:
Do you apply the same restrictions to other speech? Should anti war protesters be expected to protest quietly so as to not offend or inconvenience those who disagree with them?
Click to expand...

Obviously not, since protesting against a war is vastly different than praying at a public event. This is a non sequitur.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I think most of them think that if everyone doesn't see them doing it, it doesn't count.
Click to expand...



ttyproblem.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom