• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

NSA Collecting Phone Records

What is your stance on this action?

  • Total voters
    34
Zyphlin

Zyphlin

DP Veteran
Joined
Jul 21, 2005
Messages
51,675
Reaction score
35,460
Location
Washington, DC
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
In referenec to this story: LINK

The question for this thread is very simple. Do you think this is good, bad, or a necessary evil. Why?

Here's the tricky part. Speaking SIMPLY about this and your feeling ABOUT THIS. Not about any other Obama "scandals", not about any "Bush" actions, not about who started it, not about partisanship. Nor about if you think someone needs to be impeached or arrested or voted out or if it's feigned outrage or if people are hypocrites.

Is this bad, is this good, or is this a necessary evil and why?

Wondering how far we get before someone basically ignores the "tricky part" and does it anyways...
 
Last edited:
I honestly don't know how I feel about it. It's been going on for seven years, and has apparently been responsible for stopping planned terrorist attacks... but the totality of it now being exposed is overwhelming. I'll post in the poll after I've mulled it over for a while.
 
I think it's scary and a bad thing.
 
Zyphlin said:
In referenec to this story: LINK

The question for this thread is very simple. Do you think this is good, bad, or a necessary evil. Why?

Here's the tricky part. Speaking SIMPLY about this and your feeling ABOUT THIS. Not about any other Obama "scandals", not about any "Bush" actions, not about who started it, not about partisanship. Nor about if you think someone needs to be impeached or arrested or voted out or if it's feigned outrage or if people are hypocrites.

Is this bad, is this good, or is this a necessary evil and why?
Click to expand...

X factor hit it on the head-scary & bad.

We are getting like the Russians,Iranians etc who had the secret police watching their people.

This shouldn't be the USAs policy!!!!:cry:
 
Zyphlin said:
In referenec to this story: LINK

The question for this thread is very simple. Do you think this is good, bad, or a necessary evil. Why?

Here's the tricky part. Speaking SIMPLY about this and your feeling ABOUT THIS. Not about any other Obama "scandals", not about any "Bush" actions, not about who started it, not about partisanship. Nor about if you think someone needs to be impeached or arrested or voted out or if it's feigned outrage or if people are hypocrites.

Is this bad, is this good, or is this a necessary evil and why?
Click to expand...

Like DiAnna said, I really don't know exactly what to make of this. Realistically, alot of my opinion depends on what is being done with those records, which we do not really know. I dunno if I would call this a scandal since it was done in all appearances legally, though I am sure people will wave that flag around.
 
When Americans feel like they themselves are being burdened with the adjustment to the War on Terrorism, it defeats the purpose of what the early Bush administration proclaimed it would be doing: saving us from massive societal redefinition by making adjustments. I'm more cautious about declaring it uniformly bad (despite my answer), but it raises a great many concerns.
 
Zyphlin said:
In referenec to this story: LINK

The question for this thread is very simple. Do you think this is good, bad, or a necessary evil. Why?

Here's the tricky part. Speaking SIMPLY about this and your feeling ABOUT THIS. Not about any other Obama "scandals", not about any "Bush" actions, not about who started it, not about partisanship. Nor about if you think someone needs to be impeached or arrested or voted out or if it's feigned outrage or if people are hypocrites.

Is this bad, is this good, or is this a necessary evil and why?
Click to expand...

I think this IS part of the Obama scandal. The people in the press are releasing certain approved information to get public attention off of the scandals. This is really more scary than all of the scandals so they took a calculated risk and it's working. My question, is who released this information and why?
 
Zyphlin said:
In referenec to this story: LINK

The question for this thread is very simple. Do you think this is good, bad, or a necessary evil. Why?

Here's the tricky part. Speaking SIMPLY about this and your feeling ABOUT THIS. Not about any other Obama "scandals", not about any "Bush" actions, not about who started it, not about partisanship. Nor about if you think someone needs to be impeached or arrested or voted out or if it's feigned outrage or if people are hypocrites.

Is this bad, is this good, or is this a necessary evil and why?
Click to expand...

I think it's between good and a necessary evil. I voted good. It will be very helpful putting guilty people behind bars -- which is where we want them.
 
Bad.

Very bad.

Right now this information is (presumably) being collected to assist in promoting the security and safety of the public. It's a noble cause. But what happens when this same data is used to determine how often someone stops at a McDonald's because people who eat too much fast food are more prone to have an unhealthy lifestyle and thus increase the cost of national health care? What happens when this data is used to sort out how often someone stops by a store that sells firearms or ammunition because they might be a threat to the public safety? What happens when this data is used to figure out who is heading off into the wilderness for camping or hunting or fishing because that person might be constructing a survival bunker and plotting to overthrow the government?

It is unconscionable that the entire population is deemed to be a potential threat to the state......but that mindset seems to occur with some regularity in the world of politics.
 
I think this is wrong. If the government suspects someone of terrorist plots they should get a warrant to obtain their info for the suspected individual and only that individual. I think it's wrong for the government to collect call information from millions of Verizon users without them even being told.
 
Zyphlin said:
In referenec to this story: LINK

The question for this thread is very simple. Do you think this is good, bad, or a necessary evil. Why?

Here's the tricky part. Speaking SIMPLY about this and your feeling ABOUT THIS. Not about any other Obama "scandals", not about any "Bush" actions, not about who started it, not about partisanship. Nor about if you think someone needs to be impeached or arrested or voted out or if it's feigned outrage or if people are hypocrites.

Is this bad, is this good, or is this a necessary evil and why?

Wondering how far we get before someone basically ignores the "tricky part" and does it anyways...
Click to expand...

Horrible breech of the 4th, all those involved should be jailed. If I believed in the death penalty, I would say "off with their heads".
 
Redress said:
Like DiAnna said, I really don't know exactly what to make of this. Realistically, alot of my opinion depends on what is being done with those records, which we do not really know. I dunno if I would call this a scandal since it was done in all appearances legally, though I am sure people will wave that flag around.
Click to expand...

When the government grants itself power, anything it does can be "legal". Rightful, proper, by the freedom and liberty of the People, however, it may not be.
 
MaggieD said:
I think it's between good and a necessary evil. I voted good. It will be very helpful putting guilty people behind bars -- which is where we want them.
Click to expand...

So why not more surveillance and data collection? I mean, it helps put "guilty" people behind bars, right? Cameras in your home? Maybe checking in with your friendly neighborhood Finger Man? If it helps put "guilty" people behind bars that is.
 
i'm uncomfortable with it. i've never supported the "patriot" act.

i think we're at the point where we need to have a national (and non-partisan) discussion about this. if preventing zealots from blowing up other people is important enough to conditionally toss the fourth amendment, then i think the best way to do that is to amend. i'm not issuing a blanket statement that it isn't important enough; i'd just like a clearer definition of when activity like this is appropriate.
 
Zyphlin said:
In referenec to this story: LINK

The question for this thread is very simple. Do you think this is good, bad, or a necessary evil. Why?

Here's the tricky part. Speaking SIMPLY about this and your feeling ABOUT THIS. Not about any other Obama "scandals", not about any "Bush" actions, not about who started it, not about partisanship. Nor about if you think someone needs to be impeached or arrested or voted out or if it's feigned outrage or if people are hypocrites.

Is this bad, is this good, or is this a necessary evil and why?

Wondering how far we get before someone basically ignores the "tricky part" and does it anyways...
Click to expand...

If the records are being collected to see what telephone numbers are calling or receiving calls from known telephone numbers in targeted foreign countries that are infiltrated by terrorists, it's possible, if the government has sufficient programming abilities, to ferret out trends or consistencies that could lead to communications between terrorist cells in America and outside terrorists. That's a big if, but tracking down people who want to do bad things is not easy business.

That said, I can't see how records showing little Johnnie calling his granny on her birthday and all the other minutia embedded in millions of calls in a short time period is going to be easily filtered and boiled down to something relevant but then I don't know what facilities the government has.

The big problem is that it's certainly open to abuse - if they get Senator Paul's telephone activity mixed into the mess, how tempting will it be to trace all the calls to and from his line to see what he's up to? or a member of the media who's been a thorn in the side of the administration? With the advent of the IRS business, many people have precious little trust in this administration to do the right thing with the powers they wield.
 
CanadaJohn said:
If the records are being collected to see what telephone numbers are calling or receiving calls from known telephone numbers in targeted foreign countries that are infiltrated by terrorists, it's possible, if the government has sufficient programming abilities, to ferret out trends or consistencies that could lead to communications between terrorist cells in America and outside terrorists. That's a big if, but tracking down people who want to do bad things is not easy business.
Click to expand...

The NSA is one of the largest employers of PhD mathematicians.
 
CanadaJohn said:
Since you seem to be making a joke of the issue it's hard for me to tell what, if anything, you're seriously saying.
Click to expand...

I have yet to make a joke in this thread.
 
1. American citizens are alive today because of this program and similar efforts to track how terrorists move money, men, and materials.

2. This program isn't partisan - it has occurred under both Democrat and Republican administration, and it's defenders in Congress are equally on both sides of the aisle. Notably, all those associated with it are supporters, despite the potential for partisan advantage on the part of Republicans (There will be those who would claim Republicans would be hindered by the history of their support for the Bush administration; I humbly invite them to inspect the Democrats 2006 electoral advantage vis-a-vie Iraq).

2a. That something is supported by both sides of the aisle doesn't make it wise or good. It just means that there are obvious strong benefits to it that appeal to both of those groups (see: #1)

3. That being said, we live in an era where government is used for partisan advantage. This is an incredible power to hand our government, and the likelihood of it being abused should we continue down that route is high. We need a very thorough and very well known check-and-balance on this thing.
 
So long as its original purpose is not perverted to suit the administration in question, and the proper legal course was taken prior, I'll accept it as a necessary measure, especially given the reported effectiveness and apparent lack of abuse in its short history.
 
Society made it's decision in 2001 when it condoned/allowed the Patriot Act to become law. This is only an extension of that mindset. There are few halfway points down this slippery slope. We either accept that the government is going to "observe" us or we need to stop all such actions except specific actions for specific people just like any other warrant - even if that warrant is silent. At this point, considering society's complacency of earlier laws, I think we're stuck with this. It's a little late to start squealing now unless we're willing to go all the way and shoot down the Patriot Acts et al, too.
 
Since it has been going on since J Edgar Hoover, regardless of how I feel it will not stop ever. If a person trust the government to protect the people it is probably good, if you have distrust of the government it is bad. I am undecided at this point.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom