View Poll Results: What is your stance on this action?

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  • It's a good action

    3 7.69%
  • It's a bad action

    23 58.97%
  • It's a necessary evil

    5 12.82%
  • Still forming my opinion

    8 20.51%
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Thread: NSA Collecting Phone Records

  1. #11
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    Re: NSA Collecting Phone Records

    I think this is wrong. If the government suspects someone of terrorist plots they should get a warrant to obtain their info for the suspected individual and only that individual. I think it's wrong for the government to collect call information from millions of Verizon users without them even being told.

  2. #12
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    Re: NSA Collecting Phone Records

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    In referenec to this story: LINK

    The question for this thread is very simple. Do you think this is good, bad, or a necessary evil. Why?

    Here's the tricky part. Speaking SIMPLY about this and your feeling ABOUT THIS. Not about any other Obama "scandals", not about any "Bush" actions, not about who started it, not about partisanship. Nor about if you think someone needs to be impeached or arrested or voted out or if it's feigned outrage or if people are hypocrites.

    Is this bad, is this good, or is this a necessary evil and why?

    Wondering how far we get before someone basically ignores the "tricky part" and does it anyways...
    Horrible breech of the 4th, all those involved should be jailed. If I believed in the death penalty, I would say "off with their heads".
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  3. #13
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    Re: NSA Collecting Phone Records

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Like DiAnna said, I really don't know exactly what to make of this. Realistically, alot of my opinion depends on what is being done with those records, which we do not really know. I dunno if I would call this a scandal since it was done in all appearances legally, though I am sure people will wave that flag around.
    When the government grants itself power, anything it does can be "legal". Rightful, proper, by the freedom and liberty of the People, however, it may not be.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: NSA Collecting Phone Records

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    I think it's between good and a necessary evil. I voted good. It will be very helpful putting guilty people behind bars -- which is where we want them.
    So why not more surveillance and data collection? I mean, it helps put "guilty" people behind bars, right? Cameras in your home? Maybe checking in with your friendly neighborhood Finger Man? If it helps put "guilty" people behind bars that is.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: NSA Collecting Phone Records

    i'm uncomfortable with it. i've never supported the "patriot" act.

    i think we're at the point where we need to have a national (and non-partisan) discussion about this. if preventing zealots from blowing up other people is important enough to conditionally toss the fourth amendment, then i think the best way to do that is to amend. i'm not issuing a blanket statement that it isn't important enough; i'd just like a clearer definition of when activity like this is appropriate.

  6. #16
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    Re: NSA Collecting Phone Records

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    In referenec to this story: LINK

    The question for this thread is very simple. Do you think this is good, bad, or a necessary evil. Why?

    Here's the tricky part. Speaking SIMPLY about this and your feeling ABOUT THIS. Not about any other Obama "scandals", not about any "Bush" actions, not about who started it, not about partisanship. Nor about if you think someone needs to be impeached or arrested or voted out or if it's feigned outrage or if people are hypocrites.

    Is this bad, is this good, or is this a necessary evil and why?

    Wondering how far we get before someone basically ignores the "tricky part" and does it anyways...
    If the records are being collected to see what telephone numbers are calling or receiving calls from known telephone numbers in targeted foreign countries that are infiltrated by terrorists, it's possible, if the government has sufficient programming abilities, to ferret out trends or consistencies that could lead to communications between terrorist cells in America and outside terrorists. That's a big if, but tracking down people who want to do bad things is not easy business.

    That said, I can't see how records showing little Johnnie calling his granny on her birthday and all the other minutia embedded in millions of calls in a short time period is going to be easily filtered and boiled down to something relevant but then I don't know what facilities the government has.

    The big problem is that it's certainly open to abuse - if they get Senator Paul's telephone activity mixed into the mess, how tempting will it be to trace all the calls to and from his line to see what he's up to? or a member of the media who's been a thorn in the side of the administration? With the advent of the IRS business, many people have precious little trust in this administration to do the right thing with the powers they wield.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

  7. #17
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    Re: NSA Collecting Phone Records

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    If the records are being collected to see what telephone numbers are calling or receiving calls from known telephone numbers in targeted foreign countries that are infiltrated by terrorists, it's possible, if the government has sufficient programming abilities, to ferret out trends or consistencies that could lead to communications between terrorist cells in America and outside terrorists. That's a big if, but tracking down people who want to do bad things is not easy business.
    The NSA is one of the largest employers of PhD mathematicians.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #18
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    Re: NSA Collecting Phone Records

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    The NSA is one of the largest employers of PhD mathematicians.
    Since you seem to be making a joke of the issue it's hard for me to tell what, if anything, you're seriously saying.
    "Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views." William F. Buckley Jr.

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    Re: NSA Collecting Phone Records

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Since you seem to be making a joke of the issue it's hard for me to tell what, if anything, you're seriously saying.
    I have yet to make a joke in this thread.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  10. #20
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    Re: NSA Collecting Phone Records

    1. American citizens are alive today because of this program and similar efforts to track how terrorists move money, men, and materials.

    2. This program isn't partisan - it has occurred under both Democrat and Republican administration, and it's defenders in Congress are equally on both sides of the aisle. Notably, all those associated with it are supporters, despite the potential for partisan advantage on the part of Republicans (There will be those who would claim Republicans would be hindered by the history of their support for the Bush administration; I humbly invite them to inspect the Democrats 2006 electoral advantage vis-a-vie Iraq).

    2a. That something is supported by both sides of the aisle doesn't make it wise or good. It just means that there are obvious strong benefits to it that appeal to both of those groups (see: #1)

    3. That being said, we live in an era where government is used for partisan advantage. This is an incredible power to hand our government, and the likelihood of it being abused should we continue down that route is high. We need a very thorough and very well known check-and-balance on this thing.

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