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Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

  • Yes

    Votes: 24 27.3%

  • No

    Votes: 60 68.2%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 4.5%
  • Total voters
    88
Cephus said:
From my understanding of the situation, the school district had a policy in place that the student agreed to, then knowingly violated. Either he made an error in judgement in violating the order he agreed to, or he was just a complete prick.

Your choice.
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Or someone willing to break the petty rules of petty school administrators to speak his mind and exercise his freedom.:mrgreen:
 
Cephus said:
From my understanding of the situation, the school district had a policy in place that the student agreed to, then knowingly violated. Either he made an error in judgement in violating the order he agreed to, or he was just a complete prick.

Your choice.
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So the kid is a prick for violating a restriction on his first amendment right? The school restricts his right to express his religion, and the kid recognized that that restriction is politically correct garbage. So he violates it making him a prick. Or he made an "error" in expressing his religion.

I'm sorry this is America. The kid...not being an affiliate of the government...had every right to pray. To tell him he didn't is to say the state does not condone his religion. The restriction is a "prohibition" on his "free exercise" of his religion.

Guess what. The Constitution doesn't grant you the freedom from religion. To treat it as such would clearly violate the first amendment. You...and anyone else...have the right to get up and leave when someone...not affiliated with the government...decides to pray in front of you.

This kid didnt make an error in judgement and he certainly isn't a prick. He understood his first amendment right. That is why he isn't in jail over this and also why he won't be sued. If a Muslim got up am prayed it wouldn't violate the first, and if you got up and preached about how awful Christians are it wouldn't violate the first. Why? Because if you are a citizen of the United States you have a right to free exercise of your religion (or lack thereof).
 
Jack Hays said:
Or someone willing to break the petty rules of petty school administrators to speak his mind and exercise his freedom.:mrgreen:
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So he was a complete prick. Gotcha.
 
So if I start up a prayer thread how many of you intolerant assholes will go away and how many will stick around to express your outrage?

I find a lot of things offensive. Gangster rap, abortion, pop culture for the most part. So I don't listen to gangster rap, never seen the inside of an abortion clinic, and when someone told me yesterday that Kim and Kanye had their baby I had to ask who Kim and Kanye were. But if I started off a thread here suggesting we all have a blessed Father's Day and said a prayer for all of our children some of you would hang out to express how offended you were. It takes a special kind of selfishness and ego to be a good liberal, your greatest achievement is also your biggest failure.
 
tech30528 said:
So if I start up a prayer thread how many of you intolerant assholes will go away and how many will stick around to express your outrage?

I find a lot of things offensive. Gangster rap, abortion, pop culture for the most part. So I don't listen to gangster rap, never seen the inside of an abortion clinic, and when someone told me yesterday that Kim and Kanye had their baby I had to ask who Kim and Kanye were. But if I started off a thread here suggesting we all have a blessed Father's Day and said a prayer for all of our children some of you would hang out to express how offended you were. It takes a special kind of selfishness and ego to be a good liberal, your greatest achievement is also your biggest failure.
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Ya do know what ASS-U-MEing does my mighty offended one?

I don't listen to gansta rap but do watch the news so I know Kim n Kayne had a kid with some oddball celebrity name.

Never been in an abortion clinic but support a WOMAN'S right to an abortion without a bunch of government unfunded mandates standing between her and her doctor.

And think you are being the north end of a south bound mule to think in this forum you'd be attacked for saying 'Blessed' which Wiccans do as well... :shock:

Big difference between expressing that here and at a school function, and I know you know that difference.

You have a BLESSED Father's Day and I hope and pray GAWD keeps you and your children safe
 
notquiteright said:
Ya do know what ASS-U-MEing does my mighty offended one?

<snip>
Big difference between expressing that here and at a school function, and I know you know that difference.

You have a BLESSED Father's Day and I hope and pray GAWD keeps you and your children safe
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I'm not sure that tech does "know the difference"
 
ChezC3 said:
That's where you brought the argument, that isn't where it was originally.
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That is the basis of most arguments against this boy on the thread.

The point is people need to be able to express themselves, there is a time and a place for everything, yes, I whole heart-ed agree. Saying that -- I find a grad speech, time given to an individual student in recognition for his accomplishments, if he feels that that time, his time should be spent praying to God, than that is the right time and the right place. It is about the individual student, not the prejudices of the audience.
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People should be able to express themselves. But I have demonstrated how freedom of speech is not universal even in a public school. And yes, I have my disagreements on how schools are run, but that is not one of them. I see a grad speech as a privilege, not a right. No one else was able to go to the podium and give a speech of their own. Therefore, the administration is completely within their rights to censor the speech if they wish. It is no different than a teacher having control over content in his/her classroom. That's just how I feel. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
 
Jerry said:
It's not for the teacher to control, its for her superiors.
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The teacher has control over content in his/her classroom.

The administration has control over school functions.

Simple to understand.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
What error was made? Is free speech now frowned upon depending on where it is located?
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One can have the freedom to do something but it doesn't mean people have to agree with what he/she did. In this case, the student was given a privilege and delivered it in a dishonest way. I agree with Cephus that nothing can be done about it, but it doesn't mean I (or others) agree with what he did.
 
AlabamaPaul said:
You can roll our eyes all day long, but it doesn't change the substance of the post...
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You are comparing apples and oranges. The colonists had an injustice done to them (taxation without representation). Yes, sometimes it is right to break the rules. And sometimes certain rules/laws are immoral and must be broken. But there was no injustice committed against this particular student.
 
polgara said:
Good afternoon, AP. :2wave:

I also saw the youtube video, and I agree with your assessment of the audience's reaction. Is belief or faith in something greater than we are so scary to some people? Or is it the fact that it is something they personally do not agree with? Whatever happened to tolerance? :shock:
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Hello Polgara,

Tolerance has nothing to do with it, at least for me. I currently work as a teacher aide. If I gave a student a detention for saying "F*** you!" would I be intolerant? Would I be suppressing his first amendment rights? This has nothing to do with his religion (I'm a Christian myself) and everything to do with the fact he was in a position of privilege no one else had. He was also dishonest about the content of his speech which the administration had every right to review.
 
davidtaylorjr said:
Would I personally like it if another religions prayer was given? No, but I wouldn't cry about it either. It is their right.
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A public speech that no one else is allowed to have is not a RIGHT, but a PRIVILEGE. There is a difference.
 
Geoist said:
Hello Polgara,

Tolerance has nothing to do with it, at least for me. I currently work as a teacher aide. If I gave a student a detention for saying "F*** you!" would I be intolerant? Would I be suppressing his first amendment rights? This has nothing to do with his religion (I'm a Christian myself) and everything to do with the fact he was in a position of privilege no one else had. He was also dishonest about the content of his speech which the administration had every right to review.
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The speaker was in an earned position, earned through the body of work. What good is it to earn something with which others must agree before it can be enjoyed? That is a restriction of speech no matter how one tries to defend it...
 
AlabamaPaul said:
The speaker was in an earned position, earned through the body of work. What good is it to earn something with which others must agree before it can be enjoyed? That is a restriction of speech no matter how one tries to defend it...
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Well said. Good evening, AP.:2wave:
 
Geoist said:
A public speech that no one else is allowed to have is not a RIGHT, but a PRIVILEGE. There is a difference.
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Geoist said:
Nowhere did I read had the school restricted his right to express his religion.
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He earned the opportunity by being valedictorian. Restriction on his religious expression is what the discussion is about.:shock:
 
Geoist said:
That is the basis of most arguments against this boy on the thread.



People should be able to express themselves. But I have demonstrated how freedom of speech is not universal even in a public school. And yes, I have my disagreements on how schools are run, but that is not one of them. I see a grad speech as a privilege, not a right. No one else was able to go to the podium and give a speech of their own. Therefore, the administration is completely within their rights to censor the speech if they wish. It is no different than a teacher having control over content in his/her classroom. That's just how I feel. I guess we will have to agree to disagree.
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The grad speech I don't know if I'd say it is a right or a privilege. It is an honor bestowed. Time given in recognition of accomplishment. My presumption is that they expect the lad or lass to say something intelligent, poignant perhaps, maybe even a little sentimental. The point however for this honor is to give him or her a voice, to hear what they have to say, in which the content -- absent of my before mentioned exclusions -- should be uncensored and of their choosing.


Yes, agree to disagree we shall but not parting disagreeably I hope...
 
Surtr said:
Prayer isn't banned in schools, as long as it's on the students own time. When will people get this through their heads? That said, this kid screwed up by ripping up his initial speech so he could make a political statement with this stunt. The school is well within their right to take punitive actions.
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He was on his own time, as you said.
 
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