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Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

  • Yes

    Votes: 24 27.3%

  • No

    Votes: 60 68.2%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 4.5%
  • Total voters
    88
Jack Hays said:
"Here I stand. I can do no other." --Martin Luther
A lie in resistance to illegitimate secular authority is not a problem in Christian theology.:peace
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Sorry.....a lie is a lie is a lie....no matter how Christians try to spin it.

Reminds me of the lies and deceitful campaign that was run by another Christian group, Mormons during prop 8. Lying in the name of god is still lying. Sorry.
 
ChrisL said:
I think people attending a school sponsored event would be considered a captive audience in this situation.
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Again, anyone could have left, instead, most cheered...
 
Jack Hays said:
"Here I stand. I can do no other." --Martin Luther
A lie in resistance to illegitimate secular authority is not a problem in Christian theology.:peace
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It has nothing to do with beliefs. It has to do with not having children unduly influenced by OTHER people's religious beliefs. Leave it OUT of the classroom and school functions. Simple really.
 
Monserrat said:
Nope. I didn't, the school made that rule they have every right to even though it was a stupid ill thought out decision. I'm just saying it's not so shocking for a christian in a christian majority culture to recite a run of the mill average christian prayer that doesn't hurt anyone. It makes perfect sense within the confines of that culture.

I didn't deflect over the Muslim thing I actually engaged in your imaginary scenario even though it's not the issue here and all I or anyone else for that matter could provide is idle speculation, I think it would be less appropriate for a Muslim recitation of the Quran to be given in a highly christian culture as opposed to where I live which is sort of gathering place for multiple cultures and religion.

He didn't have to say a prayer in his farewell address to his fellow classmates but he did, he did what he thought was right and stood up against a stupid and ridiculous decision made by the school to restrict his speech.

I've never seen God spelled G-a-w-d, are you trying to be obnoxious there or is it just a way certain people spell it? I don't know I'm just asking mind you. Better to ask then assume one way or the other right? :cool:
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Not shocking but not allowed, and you move the goalpost by saying not shocking now. It was a majority culture and when asked if other religions as the issue is supposedly freedom of religion you take a powder and refuse to discuss any other religion. You seem to be of the mind only 'our GAWD' is possible in prayer and any attempt to show that as wrong you deflect as not under discussion...

By your yardstick only what is dominant culture is appropriate. not what the Constitution says at all. If the HONOR student who is the one you claim has soooo much of his daily life involved with his faith then why not a Muslim or Hindu who feels the same way? Why do you think the 'Dominant' culture won't accept the Muslim reading or the Buddhist prayer? for that matter why is it dependent on the dominant culture to be acceptable?

The current Christian feeling that all liberals are out to get them, fear them and want to eliminate the religion from the nation is where my comment on martyrdom comes from.

Now just between us I don't see a prayer as 'right' on most any occasion but if this young man wanted to say a prayer he could have done so in a moment of silence coz i was taught GAWD hears us even if our lips don't move so a prayer said outloud isn't a matter of Faith but a SHOWING of Faith and that is a horse of a different color.

Now if you had spent half as much of your youthful Sundays in the evangelical churches I have you would think the ONLY way to spell GAWD is GAWD as that was the ONLY way you would ever have heard it... :)
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Again, anyone could have left, instead, most cheered...
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It doesn't matter if they cheered or not. It's the principal of the thing. We don't need to have Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Pagans, whatever, preaching about their personal beliefs in the school setting. That is not what school is for. That is for Sunday School and CCD.
 
ChrisL said:
It has nothing to do with beliefs. It has to do with not having children unduly influenced by OTHER people's religious beliefs. Leave it OUT of the classroom and school functions. Simple really.
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HS Seniors are not children other than in the eyes of government...
 
AlabamaPaul said:
Again, anyone could have left, instead, most cheered...
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Thank you, AP, for that poignant coverage from the Land of the Living Dead......................
 
iacardsfan said:
Freedom of religion my friend. The Valedictorian is imposing their religious views on people of may different religions, that is offensive to say the least especially to the parents of children who came to the ceremony that are of different religions. Not everybody is your religion, not everybody believes in God, not everybody needs to be subjected to your religion. Just because the Valedictorian is a certain religion doesn't mean everybody is, and they should respect the guests by refraining from mentioning religion. Freedom of speech only extends as long as it is not violating any other rights of individuals, and in this case it is.
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Then plug your damn ears! This student earned the privilege of speaking about their success. Mentioning of God or religion motivating them doesn't flip the switch on your religion, thus you still have the freedom of religion. It's not freedom from religion. Got it?
 
clownboy said:
Meh, do a search. Here's one indication. The districts I've taught in, the high schools don't have the space for all the students AND all the guests that wish to attend. Tickets for seating are sold and the students run car washes and such to pay for the venue.
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A few rare examples. There's a reason why this is considered "news." It is because it doesn't generally happen.
 
Mathematician said:
Then plug your damn ears! This student earned the privilege of speaking about their success. Mentioning of God or religion motivating them doesn't flip the switch on your religion, thus you still have the freedom of religion. It's not freedom from religion. Got it?
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No, they don't just get to say whatever they want. Their speeches are supposed to be pre-approved. This kid changed his speech without prior approval. Just like the little girl who got into trouble for saying "hell" in her speech. People have to learn to follow rules and to quit whining when they WILLFULLY break them.
 
ChrisL said:
No, they don't just get to say whatever they want. Their speeches are supposed to be pre-approved. This kid changed his speech without prior approval. Just like the little girl who got into trouble for saying "hell" in her speech. People have to learn to follow rules and to quit whining when they WILLFULLY break them.
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I didn't notice him whining. In fact the school board stated there would be no action taken. Do you really want a nation in which everyone follows "the rules" as dictated?
 
disneydude said:
Sorry.....a lie is a lie is a lie....no matter how Christians try to spin it.

Reminds me of the lies and deceitful campaign that was run by another Christian group, Mormons during prop 8. Lying in the name of god is still lying. Sorry.
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Don't take it from me (besides, I'm agnostic), but 2,000 years of Christian theology produces another answer.:peace
 
AlabamaPaul said:
I didn't notice him whining. In fact the school board stated there would be no action taken. Do you really want a nation in which everyone follows "the rules" as dictated?
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In school? Yes. What, do you want school to be like a circus with the kids in control?
 
Are valedictorian's free to say whatever they want? If so, he had a right to get religious.

If the speeches are routinely reviewed and censored by school authorities, then he shouldn't have been allowed to do it and can be sanctioned for doing it without permission.

Whatever the case, it was rude of him to impose his religion on a general audience.
 
iacardsfan said:
I never said that. I'm just at a loss why people are defending him. there is a time and a place for everything, and in a school filled with people from several different backgrounds and religions, it is not the time to break out in prayer. Those people did not ask for it yet they were subjected to it. I'm not saying the kid needs to be thrown in jail. I'm just saying that whatever punishment the school board gives is fair. There shouldn't be a controversy over freedom of speech because there are other freedoms in violation too. There isn't anyhting major, i'm just pointing out here that this kid isn't the victim like it is being made out he is.
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I'm at a loss for why you act like every non-Christian has a fragile little mind that will be destroyed if prayer is heard. :roll:
 
ChrisL said:
It has nothing to do with beliefs. It has to do with not having children unduly influenced by OTHER people's religious beliefs. Leave it OUT of the classroom and school functions. Simple really.
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Children "unduly" influenced by a valedictorian's speech have no beliefs worth mentioning in the first place. Better for them to mix it up a little in the marketplace of ideas.:peace
 
Cephus said:
Why not? The student has free speech just like everyone else. They had as much of a RIGHT to say what they said as a racist has to say what they say. You're confusing what you WISH they'd say with what they have a RIGHT to say.
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And you are confusing rights with privileges. Of course he has a right to speak his mind just about anywhere else. But he was not in a classroom, on the street, etc. He was given the privileged position of giving a speech to his graduating class. No one else had that opportunity which makes it a privilege.
 
ChrisL said:
In school? Yes. What, do you want school to be like a circus with the kids in control?
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They had graduated! It was a ceremony, not some in school function. These "children" are our future leaders, gawd help us we have more like him...
 
Jack Hays said:
Don't take it from me (besides, I'm agnostic), but 2,000 years of Christian theology produces another answer.:peace
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"Lying" , per se, is considered unChristian, but lying to further Christian sedition against Life is a totally sanctioned tactic...................
 
Geoist said:
And you are confusing rights with privileges. Of course he has a right to speak his mind just about anywhere else. But he was not in a classroom, on the street, etc. He was given the privileged position of giving a speech to his graduating class. No one else had that opportunity which makes it a privilege.
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He earned position or right.
 
Jack Hays said:
Children "unduly" influenced by a valedictorian's speech have no beliefs worth mentioning in the first place. Better for them to mix it up a little in the marketplace of ideas.:peace
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Yeah, well that's not your decision to make. I wouldn't want radical Islam being preached in schools either. It is a smart idea to keep religion out of public school.

If you want your children exposed to religion in school, then send them to the private religious school of your choice.
 
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