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Valedictorian Defies School District and Recites Lord's Prayer [W:618]

Should the school have banned the reading of the prayer by the student?

  • Yes

    Votes: 24 27.3%
  • No

    Votes: 60 68.2%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 4.5%

  • Total voters
    88
Liberty High valedictorian's speech causes stir - FOX Carolina 21

Do you think the school was right to ban this in the first place? Why or why not?

I don't think that anyone should really be denied. I guess they can claim captive audience, but it's not like listening to someone pray hurts anyone. Of course, you open that up and you open the other side as well, it's a two way street and someone may choose to say something like "As we reach towards our tomorrow we must acknowledge that no magic pixy fairy guides our path; it is by our strength and our determination that we make our path" or whatever. So if you're ok with someone being able to pray at these events, you have to be ok with the opposite.

I happen to not care, both should be allowed, but school's have a lot of zero tolerance BS that brings everything down to some sanitized for our protection level of censorship. Mostly because people on either side can't seem to stop bitching. Stick your nose in other's business and soon YOUR business is public concern.
 
No, he's really not, especially if the ceremony is held off school grounds and outside school hours. School authority at that point is largely illusory.

I've seen near entire student bodies walk out on administrators during graduation flipping him off all the way and the administrator can do nothing about it. They all still received their diplomas in the mail.

They can cut off the speech when it approaches an unaccepted direction at the function.
 
It's not a member situation. This is a state-run school, making a rule about free speech and limiting it. That is a violation of the Constitution.

State run schools censor things all the time.
 
Are valedictorians and salutatorians permitted to make religious remarks as a part of their speeches?

Yes, although such remarks must be “non-proselytizing” and “non-sectarian” in some jurisdictions.
When a school selects a student to speak at graduation through neutral, even-handed criteria (e.g., valedictorians or salutatorians selected to speak due to their grade point averages), and the student is given primary control of the content of the speech, such expression should not be limited due to its religious content. One Guideline issued by the U.S. Department of Education in 2003 that directly deals with this issue is entitled “Prayer at Graduation.”

School officials may not mandate or organize prayer at graduation or select speakers for such events in a manner that favors religious speech such as prayer. Where students or other private graduation speakers are selected on the basis of genuinely neutral, evenhanded criteria and retain primary control over the content of their expression, however, that expression is not attributable to the school and therefore may not be restricted because of its religious (or anti-religious) content. To avoid any mistaken perception that a school endorses student or other private speech that is not in fact attributable to the school, school officials may make appropriate, neutral disclaimers to clarify that such speech (whether religious or nonreligious) is the speaker’s and not the school’s.

Id. (emphasis added). Thus, valedictorians and salutatorians should be able to include religious content in their speeches, at least where they “retain primary control over the content of their expression,” because they are selected on the basis of neutral criteria.

The key question regarding speeches provided by valedictorians and salutatorians at graduations is whether such expression would be viewed as bearing the approval of the school and, if so, whether regulations of such expression are required to be viewpoint neutral.1 In the absence of a controlling opinion on these issues in a particular jurisdiction, graduation speeches by valedictorians and salutatorians should be reasonably understood as the student’s own expression rather than speech controlled or sponsored by the school. A reasonable person in attendance at a graduation ceremony understands that valedictorians and salutatorians are selected due to academic criteria and their remarks typically reflect their own views. Valedictorians and salutatorians should be able to share how their faith has impacted their lives without fear of censorship by school officials.

Here's the SCOTUS determination on this
 
Ummm you're the one claiming majority culture to justify defying the school district rule. When asked about a Muslim doing the same thing you deflect with 'it aint happened so can't say' crap like a politician. You seem unwilling to see the 'large part of their lives' isn't something they do non stop, does this kid stop others in the hall to speak the Gospel? Does he stop people on the street to share the Word? It also isn't something they need to do at a public venue that isn't there to say grace. I don't have a problem with thanking Gawd, but a prayer was specifically ruled on and ruled out.

Nope. I didn't, the school made that rule they have every right to even though it was a stupid ill thought out decision. I'm just saying it's not so shocking for a christian in a christian majority culture to recite a run of the mill average christian prayer that doesn't hurt anyone. It makes perfect sense within the confines of that culture.

I didn't deflect over the Muslim thing I actually engaged in your imaginary scenario even though it's not the issue here and all I or anyone else for that matter could provide is idle speculation, I think it would be less appropriate for a Muslim recitation of the Quran to be given in a highly christian culture as opposed to where I live which is sort of gathering place for multiple cultures and religion.

He didn't have to say a prayer in his farewell address to his fellow classmates but he did, he did what he thought was right and stood up against a stupid and ridiculous decision made by the school to restrict his speech.

I've never seen God spelled G-a-w-d, are you trying to be obnoxious there or is it just a way certain people spell it? I don't know I'm just asking mind you. Better to ask then assume one way or the other right? :cool:
 
Thanks! Never realized the Fugs was responsible for that song. Same Fugs who did ****in' A CIA back in the 70s?

EDIT: Most times I'm okay with the auto censor, but in this case it's just ridiculous, that's the name of the song. Frackin' A CIA then.

 
Liberty High valedictorian's speech causes stir - FOX Carolina 21

Do you think the school was right to ban this in the first place? Why or why not?

The problem that I have with fools like this is that they demonstrate that they really do not understand values. Is lying a "Christian Value"? I would say not. This kid lied when he turned in his speech knowing full well that he was never going to give that speech. Lying "in the name of God" is still lying.


Remember what Christ himself said about hypocrites like this kid:
Matthew 6:5-6 (New King James Version)

5 "And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.
 
The problem that I have with fools like this is that they demonstrate that they really do not understand values. Is lying a "Christian Value"? I would say not. This kid lied when he turned in his speech knowing full well that he was never going to give that speech. Lying "in the name of God" is still lying.

So what? Who cares? That prayer didn't hurt anyone. The real hypocrisy isn't the lies of some dumb High School kid, but those screaming here that it should be legal but who wouldn't allow the opposite (someone perhaps denigrating gods) to occur in the same event.

Kids lie all the time. Well so do politicians.
 
The problem that I have with fools like this is that they demonstrate that they really do not understand values. Is lying a "Christian Value"? I would say not. This kid lied when he turned in his speech knowing full well that he was never going to give that speech. Lying "in the name of God" is still lying.


Remember what Christ himself said about hypocrites like this kid:
Matthew 6:5-6 (New King James Version)

5 "And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

You accuse the person of lying without a shred of evidence. Did you ever consider that it was a decision that came at the moment he stood at the podium? I didn't have to run my valedictorian speech through an approval committee. That seems absurd on its face...
 
The problem that I have with fools like this is that they demonstrate that they really do not understand values. Is lying a "Christian Value"? I would say not. This kid lied when he turned in his speech knowing full well that he was never going to give that speech. Lying "in the name of God" is still lying.


Remember what Christ himself said about hypocrites like this kid:
Matthew 6:5-6 (New King James Version)

5 "And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the corners of the streets, that they may be seen by men. Assuredly, I say to you, they have their reward. 6 But you, when you pray, go into your room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in the secret place; and your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly.

Meh, if you feel that's the case, this one is on his pastor, not the kid. Read the OP again, you'll see the kid checked with his pastor beforehand as to what was right in his situation and feeling the way he did about it
 
So what? Who cares? That prayer didn't hurt anyone. The real hypocrisy isn't the lies of some dumb High School kid, but those screaming here that it should be legal but who wouldn't allow the opposite (someone perhaps denigrating gods) to occur in the same event.

Kids lie all the time. Well so do politicians.

It hurt the foundations of our Constitution. The fact other kids lie doesn't justify this kid. He claims and pretends to be a "Christian" and then displays deceitful behavior. He exposed himself as a fool.
 
Meh, if you feel that's the case, this one is on his pastor, not the kid. Read the OP again, you'll see the kid checked with his pastor beforehand as to what was right in his situation and feeling the way he did about it

An 18 year old kid should know what "lying" is. He can try to push it off on the pastor but seriously.....if this kid doesn't know what lying is, how the hell can he be a valedictorian?
 
It hurt the foundations of our Constitution. The fact other kids lie doesn't justify this kid. He claims and pretends to be a "Christian" and then displays deceitful behavior. He exposed himself as a fool.

What is the foundation of our Constitution IYV?
 
You accuse the person of lying without a shred of evidence. Did you ever consider that it was a decision that came at the moment he stood at the podium? I didn't have to run my valedictorian speech through an approval committee. That seems absurd on its face...

LOL...it didn't come from the moment he stood at the podium....did you read the article? He submitted it with the prayer, it was rejected. He plotted this out with his Pastor. It was a conscious decision. Go back and read a little and you will understand.
 
It hurt the foundations of our Constitution. The fact other kids lie doesn't justify this kid. He claims and pretends to be a "Christian" and then displays deceitful behavior. He exposed himself as a fool.

How is some jackass kid flapping his gums at some graduation hurting the "foundations of our Constitution"? That's what government does.
 
What is the foundation of our Constitution IYV?

That Government should be seperate from Religion. That is one of the tenements of our Constitution. If this kid wants Religion in the school he should attend a private school.
 
That Government should be seperate from Religion. That is one of the tenements of our Constitution. If this kid wants Religion in the school he should attend a private school.

The government is secular, and doesn't speak to religion. Congress shall make no law.... A kid running his mouth ain't making law.
 
The fact that Christians would be applauding someone reciting "Now I Lay Me Down To Sleep" in public only underscores how derailed they are..............................
 
This kid demonstrated yet again what we've seen time and time again. Those who want to scream the loudest and proclaim their "Christianity" to the world are almost often the ones who display the least about the teachings of Jesus Christ. This fool clearly does not understand that you cannot lie and pretend to be Christian at the same time.
 
This kid demonstrated yet again what we've seen time and time again. Those who want to scream the loudest and proclaim their "Christianity" to the world are almost often the ones who display the least about the teachings of Jesus Christ. This fool clearly does not understand that you cannot lie and pretend to be Christian at the same time.

So? What does this have to do with the price of rice in China? It still has nothing to do with attacking the foundation of the Constitution, nor does it say that innately prayer and other forms of speech should be innately banned.
 
LOL...it didn't come from the moment he stood at the podium....did you read the article? He submitted it with the prayer, it was rejected. He plotted this out with his Pastor. It was a conscious decision. Go back and read a little and you will understand.

His speech was approved, and he took it to the podium, conflicted as to actually delivering it as approved or going with his gut feelings. I doubt many would have had the gonads to go against the "committee"...
 
His speech was approved, and he took it to the podium, conflicted as to actually delivering it as approved or going with his gut feelings. I doubt many would have had the gonads to go against the "committee"...

Shall we assume you're all in on the Sunday school "revolution" ?.............................
 
Shall we assume you're all in on the Sunday school "revolution" ?.............................

You're free to make an ass of yourself as you choose. Good evening bonz...
 
You don't have the right to not hear the religion of someone else.

Freedom of speech is not the right to be heard. This was a captured audience, not the same as some person standing on a soap box on a public street corner saying a prayer out loud.

I can bet you a bunch that not all in that auditorium held the same religious or spiritual beliefs.

Had the prayer been in Hebrew or in Arabic...there would be an explosion of objections ring out across the country.
 
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